Muslims: Why would God make a revelation that is contradictory to the revelation of Jesus?

[Servant19]

Are you saying Mohammed said the same thing?

MJ

Martin, may I suggest that if you are contributing to a thread, that you at the very LEAST read other peoples posts before making comments.

Please read post #135 of this thread

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[daler]

So Ebadi was a Muslim who decided to follow the Bahai Faith and it’s prophet OR defending human dignity?

Catholics are also defending human rights every day, every minute, in many countries. That’s why we also suffer. However, that is not what this thread is about.

MJ

Martin,
. You ask certain questions and then say “Why are you answering them? This is not what this thread is about.”

. The reality that we all face as human beings is that we are in and the same boat. There are a few on this end of the boat or that rowing in opposite directions and hitting each other with the oars, each claiming some right to do so, and using the most absurd reasoning to justify ill behavior.

. So indeed, let us return to the topic, which views as seeming contradictions the successive Revelations of the Gospel and the Quran. Probably all of these differences have been discussed by now. However, if there is a desire to continue, one would hope it would be in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship, acknowledging that differences exist which perplex the minds and present challenges to consider without resorting to insults and harsh criticism unbefitting of anyone who claims to love the God Who created us all in His image.
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[openmind77]

So Ebadi was a Muslim who decided to follow the Bahai Faith and it’s prophet OR defending human dignity?

Catholics are also defending human rights every day, every minute, in many countries. That’s why we also suffer. However, that is not what this thread is about.

MJ

The thread is about whether Islam is a revelation that contradicts Christianity and why would God do such a thing.

It seems to me except for the non-belief in the divinity of Jesus and non-belief in the Trinity, Islam does not contradict Christianity at all.

For all other matters, Islam seems to be pretty much in agreement with Christianity, so I would say, there is no reason why God would not make such a revelation.

 

[MartinJordan]

…“there are millions of Muslims who do” believe that Muhammad is the eternal “I am,” pre-existent and in union with the Eternal Logos…

I never said that there are millions who praise Baha’u’llah.

That dialogue was about the “I am”



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Millions of Muslim believe Mohammed is eternal “I am”? Jesus’ “I am” is NOT what you think it is.

 

[Servant19]

Millions of Muslim believe Mohammed is eternal “I am”? Jesus’ “I am” is NOT what you think it is.

Maybe Jesus’ “I am” is not what you think either Martin.

The reality is that Krishna, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah ALL declared that they were the Way, the Truth and also declared pre-existence and all utilized the phrase “I am” in a manner to demonstrate this transcendental reality.

Were they all liars?

Were they all deceived?

Which is it?

The amazing thing is that they all gave birth to AMAZING religions which propelled civilization into a new era of righteousness and godliness.

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[MartinJordan]

Maybe Jesus’ “I am” is not what you think either Martin.

The reality is that Krishna, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah ALL declared that they were the Way, the Truth and also declared pre-existence and all utilized the phrase “I am” in a manner to demonstrate this transcendental reality.

Were they all liars?

Were they all deceived?

Which is it?

The amazing thing is that they all gave birth to AMAZING religions which propelled civilization into a new era of righteousness and godliness.

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You have no RIGHT to tell Catholics what Jesus meant, NOR to pick and choose OUR books verses.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

You have no RIGHT to tell Catholics what Jesus meant to pick and choose OUR books verses.

MJ

So you are denying me the right to pray, meditate and reflect on the Revelation of Jesus and find a conclusion and meaning that is all-embracing?

Wow…

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[MartinJordan]

So you are denying me the right to pray, meditate and reflect on the Revelation of Jesus and find a conclusion and meaning that is all-embracing?

Wow…

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No. I am asking you to trust in Jesus’ Church. Without the Church you have no book (the NT) to refer to.

The Church has been in prayer for 2000 years.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Matthew 24:5 New International Version
For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

New Living Translation
for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many.

English Standard Version
For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.

New American Standard Bible
"For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.

King James Bible
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.

International Standard Version
because many will come in my name and say, ‘I’m the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many people.

NET Bible
For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For many will come in my name, and they will say. ‘I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Messiah’, and they will deceive many.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation
Many will come using my name. They will say, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many people.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and shall deceive many.

American King James Version
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

American Standard Version
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many.

Darby Bible Translation
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they shall mislead many.

English Revised Version
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.

Webster’s Bible Translation
For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and will deceive many.

Weymouth New Testament
"for many will come assuming my name and saying ‘I am the Christ;’ and they will mislead many.

World English Bible
For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will lead many astray.

Young’s Literal Translation
for many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they shall lead many astray,

Beautiful. Im now at peace

MJ

 

[Servant19]

No. I am asking you to trust in Jesus’ Church. Without the Church you have no book (the NT) to refer to.

The Church has been in prayer for 2000 years.

MJ

Why should I trust ANY human beings’ interpretation?

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[MartinJordan]

Why should I trust ANY human beings’ interpretation?

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Actually it was through experience, prayer, discernment and suffering, and even death the Church put together a book for the Church to be used by the Church. We needed a book that showed the love we have for our Lord and God and He’s Alive and always sending His Spirit, which is NOT man made.

MJ

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Why should I trust ANY human beings’ interpretation?

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For the same reason you trust your universal council of Justice. Why if you trust them, do you not trust the second century Christians and their apostolic criteria? Why for instance should Saint Clement or Saint Ignatius be dismissed when they have an apostolic pedigree? If they were proclaiming the corrupted gospel, if they got it wrong, what guarantee is there that you guys have preserved the truth? None as I can see.

 

[daler]

For the same reason you trust your universal council of Justice. Why if you trust them, do you not trust the second century Christians and their apostolic criteria? Why for instance should Saint Clement or Saint Ignatius be dismissed when they have an apostolic pedigree? If they were proclaiming the corrupted gospel, if they got it wrong, what guarantee is there that you guys have preserved the truth? None as I can see.

Your answer is in your last sentence: “None that I can see”

If you truly wish to see, I would suggest that you commit to study of the accused you wish to hang without the evidence they present in their case. Otherwise, you set yourself up as a judge who admits to refusing to examine the evidence. This is precisely what they do over and over and over again in mock trial after mock trial after mock trial in Iran as a pretext to imprisoning them for 20 years at a stretch. These are real people, with deep and abiding Faith, who refuse to recant their faith in the midst of the most harsh persecution in the history of humanity.

It is not abstract and occasional, but has been consistently going on for 170 years, and to people known to Servant, Arthra, and myself personally - to friends, relatives, etc. We “know” them. They are the cream of the crop of humanity in all instances. That is why they lock them up, for the shining lights must be put out, yet they shine in the prisons under the most harsh conditions such that other prisoners, who have heard lies and propaganda against the Baha’is all their lives see for the first time in their lives the truth.

So if you wish to comfortably keep repeating yourself with such phrases as: “Not that I can see”, that is ok. God is not in need of anything from any of us, “He is above the needs of His creatures”. If, however, “If” you wish to see with your own eyes the vast and comprehensive accumulation of evidence which can be presented easily, just a click or two away in these times, rather than argue the same old arguments, pick up the book “Some Answered Questions” by Abdul Baha. Read the Kitab-i-Iqan (the Book of Certitude - written in two days!! without pause of the pen or reflection - a Book which “unseals” that which was sealed throughout history in all the preceding Scriptures. And for the most comprehensive study of prophecies, I suggest “I Shall Come Again”, by Hushidar Motlagh, who devoted 25 years of remarkable scholarship from the standpoint of a Doctor of Psychology, and accomplished professor. I have met him and spoken with him and knew his brother while in Virginia 30 years ago.

However, if you prefer to echo repeatedly “Not that I can see”, do not take the time, for it will challenge your current beliefs and understanding as have never been challenged before, and if you are fair in the very least trace, and not like the Mullahs who imprison and hang the Baha’is, I strongly suspect that if you but apply the full capacity of your mind with sincere and unbiased effort, you will in fact come back with a deep, deep understanding of the Bab and Baha’u’llah which you presently lack due to simple ignorance of the vast resources of evidence which await you.

. Respectfully, for you do have the capacity, I truly believe, to reverse this position you cling to of “Not that I can see”. For this is precisely the position condemned by Jesus of the Pharisees when He said, “Eyes they have, but see not.” they, too said, “Not that I can see”, whilst a simple fisherman named Peter “saw”

. I am the son of a simple hog farmer, and I can see. Surely you can, if you “want” to. But that is left entirely up to you, whether you arise to meet the challenge or retain a comfort zone which requires nothing further to do.

God bless you, Ignatio. For brother, I believe in you, if only you dare to expose yourself to the Baha’i proofs which await you. I did. Some 35 years ago, dispelling every trace of skepticism from my biased and skeptical mind. It totally, totally… blew me away, what I found. I was incapable of saying: “Not that I can see” anymore, because I accepted the challenge, then changed my tune upon the great realization of Who Baha’u’llah truly is, and why He suffered as He did for forty years, revealing verses which Jesus could have, but did not, because mankind was not yet ready to receive them. Now we are. Are you?

Here are the links. reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/ To “Some Answered Questions” by Abdul Baha

and also reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-1.html Kitab-i-Iqan by Baha’u’llah

and “I Shall Come Again” by H Motlagh (whose family was Jewish for 3000 years)
available at this link

amazon.com/Shall-Come-Again-Hushidar-Motlagh/dp/0937661015

It is only $12.95, and if you want, I will pay for it and have it shipped to the address of your choosing, as my gift. But only on your promise to your Faith in Christ that you will in fact read it with an unbiased and enquiring mind.

Deal?

Dale

 

[Servant19]

Actually it was through experience, prayer, discernment and suffering, and even death the Church put together a book for the Church to be used by the Church. We needed a book that showed the love we have for our Lord and God and He’s Alive and always sending His Spirit, which is NOT man made.

MJ

When you fall in love with someone and they transform your life for the better, that love is expressed to the “highest” of glory of glories.

How do you know the Church is not expressing love, (which is totally as an expression of love) rather than Truth?

How do you know that the words spoken of by the Church is not just an expression of conviction resulting from the wonderful spiritual benefits that result from following the commandments of Jesus?

What makes you think, therefore, that the Words spoken of by Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are not expressions of Truth/

For the Father is greater than the Son and if the Father speaks, He does not need to unnecessarily “magnify” the station of the Son beyond what is Truth, whereas the Church does, for if it does not “magnify” its love of the Son to others, often beyond what was ACTUALLY revealed by Jesus, then it feels as if it has failed in its duty.

The Revelation of Jesus is completely aligned with the Revelation of Muhammad and the Bab and Baha’u’llah.



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[MartinJordan]

When you fall in love with someone and they transform your life for the better, that love is expressed to the “highest” of glory of glories.

How do you know the Church is not expressing love, (which is totally as an expression of love) rather than Truth?

How do you know that the words spoken of by the Church is not just an expression of conviction resulting from the wonderful spiritual benefits that result from following the commandments of Jesus?

What makes you think, therefore, that the Words spoken of by Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are not expressions of Truth/

For the Father is greater than the Son and if the Father speaks, He does not need to unnecessarily “magnify” the station of the Son beyond what is Truth, whereas the Church does, for if it does not “magnify” its love of the Son to others, often beyond what was ACTUALLY revealed by Jesus, then it feels as if it has failed in its duty.

The Revelation of Jesus is completely aligned with the Revelation of Muhammad and the Bab and Baha’u’llah.



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You have the right to imagine.

MJ

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

General notice:
Hot Topic for the week of 3/31.
Please remain on topic.

 

[Techno2000]

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The Revelation of Jesus is completely aligned with the Revelation of Muhammad and the Bab and Baha’u’llah.



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Did Bab or Baha’u’llah ever preach about the eternal
torments of Hell like Jesus did ?

 

[Servant19]

Did Bab or Baha’u’llah ever preach about the eternal
torments of Hell like Jesus did ?

Can you be more specific Techno?

What aspect of Hell are you referring to? There are many people alive today who are in the torments of Hell, don’t you think?

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[Servant19]

For the same reason you trust your universal council of Justice. Why if you trust them, do you not trust the second century Christians and their apostolic criteria? Why for instance should Saint Clement or Saint Ignatius be dismissed when they have an apostolic pedigree? If they were proclaiming the corrupted gospel, if they got it wrong, what guarantee is there that you guys have preserved the truth? None as I can see.

So many errors in this post, sorry Ignatian, one would think your constant posting over 5000 post Bahai threads, you would at least know “something”



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