My role as a soon to be wife

[bunnynessuk]

Hi, I have posted here a couple of times but mainly I read through the posts.

I am going to be marrying my (protestant) fiancee in 18mths (we are now living chastly(?)) I have been reading posts about a wifes role and also contraception and children.

I am 20 years old as is my boyfriend and we are both in our final year at university - I have a good job lined up with a starting salary which will enable us to buy a house regardless of his job.

I am wondering what my role is as a wife - I have been reading about how a wife should submit to her husband and I am confused about this what is my role as a good catholic wife?

Secondly I am also wondering about children - I suffer from various gynae problems - I am refusing ‘the pill’ as a method of treatment because i do not believe that it has any redeeming qualities particularly with its link to breast cancer etc - but I am under the impression from my docs that i will be unable to have children but i understand that their view is not gospel.

Should I be unable to have children would I be breaking any vows? Is this something I should be discussing in depth with my fiancee?

I also am a believer in working women and would not plan on leaving work for any particular length of time to raise children and my fiancee has said that should we have children he would be willing to take time of to do this for the first 6 or so months - would this be ok or not?

Any help would be well recieved I am very interested in the meaning of being a good catholic wife.and my fiancee as a soon to be convert is too!

Thanks

God Bless

 

[Della]

If you have set a date at your Catholic parish haven’t they told you that you will be going through their Cana program? A lot of what you are asking is covered in it.

If you cannot have children you can still get married. What you must be able to do is complete the conjugal embrace.

You might want to contact the FertilityCare Centers of America which is affiliated with the Pope Pius VI Institute. Their treatments are reportedly excellent as well as in line with Church teaching.

 

[lotusblossom]

First off, congratulations . This time of engagement will be a growing one, I hope .

Whether or not you are able to have children biologically does nothing to the ability to get married. You never know what God has in store. My parents were considered infertile and they have two adopted and four biological children! It is something that you should discuss with your fiance, such as - is he okay with the possibility of not having children? Is adoption an option? How does he feel about really looking into your possible fertility problems? I would also second the previous poster’s link for your fertility.

Raising your children is between you and your future spouse. I will say a couple things though - #1. you may change your mind once you actually have a child/children about working vs. staying at home and #2. your role as a mother is irreplacable, whereas your role in the workplace is quite replacable. As Catholics, being open to life does not just mean having babies, but also in educating and raising them to the best of our abilities. What that means for you, I can’t say - only God can.

As far as your original question, I’d suggest a few books -

The Good News about Sex and Marriage by Christopher West
Lifegiving Love by Kimberly Hahn
Three to Get Married by Archbishop Fulton J Sheen
Created to Be His Helpmeet by Debi Pearl
The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman

These really helped me shape my call to be a wife and has helped our marriage start off on the right foot . Also, remember the purpose of marriage is to bring our spouse as well as ourselves to holiness, so our actions should reflect this. Hope this helps! God bless!

 

[Peterdiago]

I am going to be marrying my (protestant) fiancee in 18mths

Congratulations!

(we are now living chastely)

Again, congratulations It is always the best choice.

I am 20 years old as is my boyfriend and we are both in our final year at university - I have a good job lined up with a starting salary which will enable us to buy a house regardless of his job.

That is a very blessed place to be in!

I am wondering what my role is as a wife - I have been reading about how a wife should submit to her husband and I am confused about this what is my role as a good catholic wife?

This is a huge topic, but the short (!) answer is roughly as follows;

As a Catholic wife, you are expected to submit to your husband as the Church does to Christ.

Now, that sounds a bit off to some modern people. It is not - because the full truth of this is only revealed when you understand what his role is. He is required to love you as Christ loved the Church.

So, your relationship is supposed to mirror that of Christ and the Church. The Church loves, obeys and defends Christ - she offers everything she can. Christ loves and defends and dies for the Church.

Now, as both the Church and Christ are perfect, this is easy for them. You and your fiance are not perfect - you are humans. Therefore, both of you will doubtless make mistakes and will not do what you need to do perfectly. There will be times, for example, when he does not love you as completely as Christ loved the Church. And there will be times when you do not obey him as the Church obeys Christ.

You are called, primarially, to try as hard as you can and to repent, recant and reboot when you fail.

Bear in mind also that your role of submission is to him as the Church submits to Christ. This does not mean you obey him blindly if he does not act in a Christlike manner. Thus, if he says (and I do not mean to suggest that your husband would, I merely use this as an example) “Let’s get drunk, do cocaine and have a threesome with some blonde harlot we pick up in a bar!” you are not honor-bound to obey him. His duty is to act in a Christlike manner, and yours is to obey him as the Church obeys Christ. The Church obeys Christ not out of some idiotic idea of “we do what we are told” but because Christ acted as Christ acted (ie. with perfect love and devotion and charity).

Your submission to him is really just an extension of your natural submission as a Catholic to Christ - he is called to be Christlike in your marriage (as you are called to be Christlike to others in your life) and therefore you act as the Church to him.

 

[Peterdiago]

Secondly I am also wondering about children - I suffer from various gynae problems - I am refusing ‘the pill’ as a method of treatment because i do not believe that it has any redeeming qualities particularly with its link to breast cancer etc - but I am under the impression from my docs that i will be unable to have children but i understand that their view is not gospel.

Your refusal to take the pill is an excellent choice. I am unsure, and I cannot remember the reference for this, but another poster on this forum has suggested that to take a medication which causes infertility as a side effect when the main effect is to prevent an illness is NOT a sin. I am, however, unsure of the status of this. Please do not take my comments as authoratative teaching.

In any case, your choice to avoid contraception is a good one in accord with the teaching of the Church.

Should I be unable to have children would I be breaking any vows? Is this something I should be discussing in depth with my fiancee?

You would be breaking no vows or strictures of the Church by being infertile though no fault of your own. You have an illness or condition which impacts on your fertility. This does NOT make you a sinner - it in fact will lead to graces if it is a cross which you have to bear and you bear it nobly and piously.

Having a medical condition which renders you unable to have children does not make you a sinner at all.

Should you discuss this with your fiance? Absolutely yes - it may be that he wants children very much and the fact that you may be unable to give them to him may cause problems or mean that he will have to re-evaluate his desire for them. You may wish to discuss medical options which will increase your chance of fertility (always bearing in mind that certain proceedures are not allowed by the Catholic Church), or you may wish to discuss adoption.

Children are a VERY important part of any marriage - and you should of course discuss them with your fiance. Even if you were not having doubts about your ability to conceive, you should discuss this.

I also am a believer in working women and would not plan on leaving work for any particular length of time to raise children and my fiancee has said that should we have children he would be willing to take time of to do this for the first 6 or so months - would this be ok or not?

There are many healthy and happy individuals who have been raised as you describe. The Catholic Church does not prohibit men from raising children, nor does it prohibit women from working.

What the Catholic Church demands, however, is the recognition of the distinction between the parental roles. Fathers are not mothers, and vice versa. It is important, whatever your family situation, to maintain an appropriate distinction between the two roles. The father is supposed to act in a manner like Christ, the mother in a role like the Church. Such parental models will make a healthy and happy child, and a healthy and happy family.

If you feel that the mother working and the father remaining at home for 6 months or longer would impact negatively on such a distinction, then you would be advised to avoid it. However, if you can continue to act in a manner consistent with motherhood and the feminine and your husband can act as a father and masculine, then you are all set.

 

[BlestOne]

First of all… Congratulations!

Second… am I right in assuming you are from an Asian country (the way you phrased some things sounds distinctly Asian)?

Culturally, there are different expectations depending on where you are from, not just what religion you are.

Nobody but you, your future husband and God can say what work/ home arrangements are right for your family. I didn’t have any choices… I had to work. But to be honest, I really wish I could have spent more time at home when kids were young. I don’t know of anybody that regrets staying home, but I know plenty who regret the lack of time spent with children when they are young.

I was told I couldn’t have children when I was 16 years old… so here I am 4 miracles later… I work full time 40-60 hours a week and my kids are all teenagers and 1 is in college. That is just how it worked out for me.

To be a good Catholic wife is much more important than my work identity though. I have a good arrangement where I work where I can take time off when I need to for my kids or husband. My boss is very good about not taking me on business trips where it would be all men and me. Any time I have travelled he sent my son with me or arranged for his wife to go along just so it wouldn’t look bad.

I think some of the book suggestions other posters mentioned is a good idea. Just be sure to talk to your fiance about what he expects too.

 

[bunnynessuk]

Hi Thanks for all the replies thus far!

Its a really hard situation as I presume it is for all brides to be trying to discover how best to live upto the catholic way of life and ensure that you are entering what should become a strong marriage.

My fiancee and I have been togethre for over 4 years now and I no that he is the one but trying to establish my new role is proving quite trying particularly as I haven’t always been strong in my faith and that my parents (adoptive) are not strong in theirs.

Also I am from English not asian!

Anyway any help is appreciated!

J

 

[rciadan]

I see that you say your Catholic faith is strong; but I must bring to mind a few core issues. These are issues that may not seem imortant to you now; but in the years to come and most especially when children become involved, they show themselves to be causes of extremely great division.

You are about to marry outside your faith. Another poster asked about the pre-Cana asssuming you will be married in the Church), but I must ask, are you getting married in the Church or in a Protestant or civil ceremony?

Have you considered that you and your husband have very different beliefs on matters that will affect your salvation and the slavation of any future children? Has he promised to raise these children in the Catholic faith? Have you had this discussion with him?

Which Church do/will you attend? Do you go to seperate churches at the moment or one of you attend the other’s church? Or do you switch off as if there is no difference between the two?

As a “good Catholic wife” who has taken a vow to “love, honor, and obey” her husband, if he tells you he does not want you to attend the Catholic Church anymore and he does not want his kids to be Catholic: if he wants all of you to attend his church every Sunday: if he does not want his children baptised because he does not believe in infant baptism, will you be obedient?

Have you had discussions about the real Presence in the Holy Eucharist? About Mary? Praying to the Saints? Confessing your sins in the Confessional? About the Authority of the Church and of the Pope? Will he be fine with teaching Catholic Doctrine to the kids? How can he if he does not believe, or will he say, "This is what Mom’s church believes, but I don’t think it is true? How will the kids react to that kind of Religious confusion?

I don’t mean to come off as totally negative. As a Catholic father I must say however that I desire more than anything for my girls to never lose their faith. I personally find it very difficult to think of my girls being married to someone who does not think like they. I would be asking these and many, many more questions if my daughters ever told me they wanted to marry outside the faith.

I think they are extremely important questions that demand serious thought, even if they are unpleasant or uncomfortable becuause you may not like the answers.

You say that you know he is “the one.” Are you saying that you believe that there is only “one” out there? What makes him the “one”? There are many answers to this question; but, the only answer that matters is, Is it Gods divine Will that I marry this man? This is a question that begs to be answered not just from the heart (emotionally) but from the depths of the soul as well, with the aid of the Church and with the mind (in light of reason). If he is “the one” all of these will agree. If all three do not agree, he is not the “one” no matter how in love you “feel”.

My prayers are with you as you begin to question the spiritual and generational aspects of this relationship

 

[Aleii]

Your refusal to take the pill is an excellent choice. I am unsure, and I cannot remember the reference for this, but another poster on this forum has suggested that to take a medication which causes infertility as a side effect when the main effect is to prevent an illness is NOT a sin. I am, however, unsure of the status of this. Please do not take my comments as authoratative teaching.

You are correct in that taking the pill for medical reasons is not a sin.

When taken as necessary for therapeutic reasons, use of “the pill” is not immoral. Humanae Vitae states, “the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever” (HV 15).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=15756&highlight=birth+control+pill

 

[bunnynessuk]

Hi again,

My fiancee is in the process of converting from CofE to Catholism - this was a pre-requisite to my acceptance.

The obediant wife situation is probably my one problem - I am currently the dominant one in the relationship - I decide what we do and when, I control the finances (he is atrocious with money! Cant bank to save his life), I have the great job and I come with money! I am happy with this situation and I believe that he is too, would the church not be happy with this?

As for knowing he is ‘the one’ this has very little to do with disney love and more to do with compatibility, I am not a sappy romantic - never have been - I see out relationship as a mutual partnership, we have similar interests and respect for each other

 

[uncleauberon]

Good luck and God Bless you in preparing for your marriage.

Indeed - a Good FOCCUS and Pre-Cana program could help you and your fiancee’ discuss many of the issues that you brought up.

But, don’t stop there. Go out and Seek other resources for discussion. {Christopher West has some Marriage prep stuff christopherwest.com }

As per your GYN concerns I second the previous suggestion to do some research from the

fertilitycare.org/

and the

[/www.ccli.org](http://www.ccli.org/)

Many, Doctors use the Pill to treat to symptoms without really looking into the problems.

Good Luck

God Bless

todd

 

[Peterdiago]

The obediant wife situation is probably my one problem - I am currently the dominant one in the relationship - I decide what we do and when, I control the finances (he is atrocious with money! Cant bank to save his life), I have the great job and I come with money! I am happy with this situation and I believe that he is too, would the church not be happy with this?

The issue is not of who is the dominant one, but in that you both submit to what you need to submit to. Therefore, he and you both submit to Christ and the Church as individual Christians submit to Christ & the Church, and you submit as the Church does to Christ.

To give a rather silly answer, I suspect that the Church is the one who handles the money in that relationship, and the one who decides where they go and when, and has the job and the money! But, still - on a more serious note, none of the issues you cite are a problem

You say he’s not so good with money - that is not a sin, and it is not a sin for you to be good. It is not a sin for you to work and for him to earn less than you do. It is not a problem for you to be as you are. At all.

Certain very old-fashioned Catholics might have a problem with your lifestyle, but there is nothing officially wrong with it at all. You are acting as many modern couples do and there is nothing sinful about that.

You are required to submit to him in spiritual matters - and what that means is something that the two of you need to decide amongst yourselves, as it is never entirely clear. He should be the one who is leading the decisions about spiritual things.

You submit to him insofar as he is Christlike - the issue here is not really with your submission, but with him being the thing you have to submit to. He’s got to try to be like Christ to your Church - which is very difficult indeed!

You are to offer him support and nuturing and love and try to help him become more and more like Christ every day. In turn, he is supposed to help you become more and more like the Church.

You must be a wife (and perhaps mother) and he must be a husband (and perhaps father). The only issue that the Church would have if those roles are confused by your lifestyle - can you be a wife and him a husband in those situations? Can you be distinct in gender roles?

If you can, then you are perfectly fine. If you think those will impact on your living out appropriate gender roles, then you need to think carefully about it.

 

[rciadan]

Hi again,

My fiancee is in the process of converting from CofE to Catholism - this was a pre-requisite to my acceptance.

The obediant wife situation is probably my one problem - I am currently the dominant one in the relationship - I decide what we do and when, I control the finances (he is atrocious with money! Cant bank to save his life), I have the great job and I come with money! I am happy with this situation and I believe that he is too, would the church not be happy with this?

As for knowing he is ‘the one’ this has very little to do with disney love and more to do with compatibility, I am not a sappy romantic - never have been - I see out relationship as a mutual partnership, we have similar interests and respect for each other

Praise be to God. Obedience is not like slavery. You obey by doing those things that he would rather you do. I see nothing in what you say that is against what the Church teaches. I think that as long as he is coming into the faith and willing to take the lead as spiritual director and live and sheperd his family according to the will of the Father and in obedience to the Magesterium of the Church, all is well and both of you are blessed!