Mysticism and starting over

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ZenFred

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Hello,

I’ve come looking for some help in starting over with my faith. I’ve found great people and sources of mysticism here before. I’ve spent some time in Zen Buddhism and recently tried Judaism. But I think I’ve finally realized that the peace and presence of God can be found within my own family’s tradition of Christanity. At least for the sake of my marriage and family, I should try.

So I’ve read Thomas Merton’s seeds of contemplation, Karl Rahner’s encounter with silence and loved both. I found doing the x3/day standing prayers in Judaism deeply moving. So I was thinking about doing the liturgy of hours?

Maybe I should find a Catholic priest I could talk with that is more knowledgeable of mysticism and lay prayer disciplines. My family is espicopalian.

Any prayers and advice would be helpful. Thanks -Fred
 
A priest (Catholic or Anglican as you see fit) is they way to go, everything else is just idle chatter.
 
Blessings of the Most Holy Trinity on this Day of Trinity Sunday – God bless your searching and if you do decide to speak to a priests, which is a great idea – Welcome home! Hope you check us out and praying in union with the Trinity through the gift of your baptism is a great place to start. God truly is mystery but wants us to live in the love of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Praying in union with this mystery of relationship is truly a mystical experience which is an ocean of eternal love, truth and light.
May you have the courage and endurance to really enter into your home because your already on the sea and God wants unity – He is unity – May all our brothers and sisters who are in the Episcopal church seek unity with their mother church – My grandmother came from England but was Catholic – she lived in a town which once hide priests from being killed for their faith.
Have a blessed and holy search – your sister in Christ Divine3
 
The liturgy of the hours is a great place to start. So is the Rosary, The Chaplet of Divine Mercy or The Stations of the Cross. By all means talk to a Roman Catholic priest.

You might enjoy reading St. Teresa of Avila, Hildegarde of Bingen or Julian of Norwich.

God bless you.
 
Try when you read the New Testament to really see and hear Jesus both in his historical time frame and now. What was he actually saying to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?
If your question is about mysticism, I would want to know why the world largely rejects the topic, and why they crop up in different times and places despite that fact.
 
Michael19682 said:
Try when you read the New Testament to really see and hear Jesus both in his historical time frame and now. What was he actually saying to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?
If your question is about mysticism, I would want to know why the world largely rejects the topic, and why they crop up in different times and places despite that fact.
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Michael,

I think your advice on the scripture is great and applies to the Old Testament too, which even a bit of exposure to Judaism has given me a much deeper appreciation for.

So what do you mean by the world rejecting mysticism? The world certainly marginalizes and belittles any real practice of self-denial. And why does it continue to pop up? Isn’t it because God calls us and it is within our hearts to yearn for Him? But I’d be interested more in what you mean.

I talked to my episcopal priest and was enocouraged to pray the daily office, which has been extremely rewarding. I think reading the daily lectionaries as part of that too. I’m in a good place I think
 
ZenFred said:
Michael,

I think your advice on the scripture is great and applies to the Old Testament too, which even a bit of exposure to Judaism has given me a much deeper appreciation for.

So what do you mean by the world rejecting mysticism? The world certainly marginalizes and belittles any real practice of self-denial. And why does it continue to pop up? Isn’t it because God calls us and it is within our hearts to yearn for Him? But I’d be interested more in what you mean.

I talked to my episcopal priest and was enocouraged to pray the daily office, which has been extremely rewarding. I think reading the daily lectionaries as part of that too. I’m in a good place I think
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Yes. I like your answer. God is calling us. Finding our life in Christ is what it is all about. The old testament is nourishing, but it is not life itself, not complete without the living word, which is revealed fully in Jesus Christ. You might also experience the Sacraments of full initiation. I recommend adult initiation through the RCIA so you can participate in communion as soon as possible.
Back to the old testament, thank you for showing its capacity to speak God’s spirit in preparation for the coming of the Lord. It was nice to “hear” 🙂
 
You might possibly be interested in going to a Life in the Spirit Seminar (Catholic) if there is one in your area. My prayers for your faith in Jesus to deepen.

In His love,
mlz
 
The Isrealites with Moses, John the Baptist and Jesus Himself spent time in the desert. That said, self-denial can also be a form of self-centredness. Giving of oneself is better. Prayer as part of a community is important, praying together for one another. Jesus made a point of directing us to eat His body that we may grow closer to God. We should participate in the mass and partake of the Eucharist.
 
Your search for mysticism is going of in the wrong direction or at least has in the past. It is like trying to find magical runes, spells or divinations. The Real Presence in the Body and Blood celebrated at the alter around the world, 27/7 is the true Mystery that is calling you. See a priest and start “new” not over.👍
 
Aloysium said:
. . . self-denial can also be a form of self-centredness. . . .
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Perhaps it is all self-centredness. After all, to seek the truth and be free of illusion, to reach for what is infinitely beautiful, to want to divest oneself of the transient and exist eternally, to experience the joy of fulfilling our ultimate desire would imply that one wants it all. However, where we do find this is not in personal achievement, but in love, where in giving of ourselves, we are one with the beloved. It is in the giving rather than the taking because the Triune Godhead is Love itself. The Source of existence is relational, and we in His image exist in relation to Him, to our world and to one another. The mountain we are climbing is of more perfect relationality, to see the world and its wonders more clearly, as they are known by God, lovingly. We grow in Christ, the Way to transcendence, the one true Vine. We become more Christ-like in our journey. It is therefore wise to follow His commands. We have it all when we give it all away in love.
 
No legitimate form of prayer is going to lead you away from God or Mass. Or away from doing good works, for that matter.

Mary Estelle – The Liturgy of the Hours, aka the Divine Office, is actually the prayer structure of the Church in which the Mass is embedded. That’s why priests have to read/sing the Office every day, and why cathedrals and monasteries traditionally celebrate the Hours as well as Mass every day.

Mystical prayer is normal prayer. Nothing weird or different about it.
 
Mintaka said:
No legitimate form of prayer is going to lead you away from God or Mass. Or away from doing good works, for that matter.

Mary Estelle – The Liturgy of the Hours, aka the Divine Office, is actually the prayer structure of the Church in which the Mass is embedded. That’s why priests have to read/sing the Office every day, and why cathedrals and monasteries traditionally celebrate the Hours as well as Mass every day.

Mystical prayer is normal prayer. Nothing weird or different about it.
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Perhaps I miss-read , but I didn’t get the initial impression that the poster was referring to the Mystical Body of the Church. Of course prayer is mystical in the proper sense and so is structured prayer. I was thinking of his past “mystical chase.” Yes, there are people who chase after mirecles and mystic events and experiences, not always for the good of the Church or man. If you go back to my post I did say that THE BODY AND BLOOD aka known as the Mass is the new you every day. Peace.
 
Mary,

I think your right and I need to define mysticism some. For me, I mean in a sense used by the Catholic Mystics in particular the via negativa. Mysticism is the searching for the “direct” experience of truth. The wonderful part is that Truth seeks us. I don’t feel able to really describe much further though, it is a deep mystery. But you are right it has to be about finding God and being found by God and not seeking spiritual highs.
 
ZenFred said:
Mary,

I think your right and I need to define mysticism some. For me, I mean in a sense used by the Catholic Mystics in particular the via negativa. Mysticism is the searching for the “direct” experience of truth. The wonderful part is that Truth seeks us. I don’t feel able to really describe much further though, it is a deep mystery. But you are right it has to be about finding God and being found by God and not seeking spiritual highs.
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Most Catholics are not into the Via Negativa or apophatic spirituality. It can seem too much like Zen. Mostly we are into the images we have come to know and love from Psalms, parables, the prophets and Pentateuch. So “mysticism” can often be confused with visions, voices and odd behavior. But there is a purity to it (Via Negativa) in that we come with no expectations, completely open to what God wants for us. You sound like someone who would appreciate interreligious dialogue.
 
Fair enough. Obviously, from my past, I do like inter religious dialogue, and my two favorite Mystics are Merton and Rahner. So apophatic approaches are definitely my thing.

It’s the reason I think I’ve had little trouble switching faiths back to Christanity. I even don’t have trouble reading the creeds anymore because I have gone beyond being not sure if I believe them to recognizing (for me) that are unimportant and cannot hold God’s essence in any way. Obviously if you want to run a church creeds and doctrines are important and I think that as a church member it is good not to cause a fuss about them. But now I doesn’t even matter to me that I don’t neccesarily believe them. I don’t mean to offend any of the theologically orthodox but just that theology for me is a hindrance to God’s presence which defies any attempt to be systematic.
 
I think you will get a variety of responses among priests as well as laity. Priests in religious orders will probably be more open to your apophatic approach to creeds and doctrines. Some here will consider you on the fringe or even in dangerous territory. But you are simply at a level that is not often appreciated. At any rate, the Divine Office is always a good idea.
 
ZenFred said:
. . . theology for me is a hindrance to God’s presence which defies any attempt to be systematic.
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Theology, as I understand its purpose, is to share what God has revealed. It is pretty much what you are trying to do here. Definitely, it can become a mere juggling of ideas, just as talking about one’s search can devolve into ego construction. Both can distract. We are on this journey together in our own way, that is ultimately one Way to God, who is Love.
 
Aloysium said:
Theology, as I understand its purpose, is to share what God has revealed. It is pretty much what you are trying to do here. Definitely, it can become a mere juggling of ideas, just as talking about one’s search can devolve into ego construction. Both can distract. We are on this journey together in our own way, that is ultimately one Way to God, who is Love.
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I find theology helpful when it explores questions do relevance. But at times it can get so abstract and unknowable that it is silly.
 
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