National flag of Israel flown outside Christian churches?

[VanSensei]

I am thinking that perhaps “messianic Judaism” could be another fad in the fundamental Protestant theological ‘fad de jour’ lineage. Along with the Rapture Left Behind, dispensationalism type of thing.

Because if you believe in Jesus as messiah you are Jewish no longer, you are Christian.

This is the latest evangelical/fundamental fad. Even in my tiny less than 10,000 population town there is an Evangelical church with a name something like: BUILDING, A CONGREGATION OF NOT HAVING DOUBT IN JESUS THE MASCHIAC. It is a tumble down type of place.

You have to be Southern and fundamentalist to really figure this out. But they are Christians with kosher dressing.

No offense meant since I am Southern and raised fundamentalist.

It’s a very odd thing. Sometimes, Christians are very syncretic, like Anglo-Catholics who venerate our Blessed Mother, call their services Mass and have incense and bells. They’re as close to Catholic as can get without formally converting. That makes a lot of sense.

Messianic Judaism is different and makes no sense at all.

 

[RPRPsych]

It’s a very odd thing. Sometimes, Christians are very syncretic, like Anglo-Catholics who venerate our Blessed Mother, call their services Mass and have incense and bells. They’re as close to Catholic as can get without formally converting. That makes a lot of sense.

Messianic Judaism is different and makes no sense at all.

I agree.

 

[andrewstx]

It’s a very odd thing. Sometimes, Christians are very syncretic, like Anglo-Catholics who venerate our Blessed Mother, call their services Mass and have incense and bells. They’re as close to Catholic as can get without formally converting. That makes a lot of sense.

Messianic Judaism is different and makes no sense at all.

MJ is after all a contradiction of terms.

Many years ago out of interest I attended a “Jewish-Christian festival” this was before I even knew what “Messianic Judaism” even was. It turned out to be a "MJ"affair. It was sponsored by the “House of Yahweh” which was a cult founded by two brothers one of whom killed the other. There was a big article about all of this in a Texas Monthly magazine several years ago.

Funny thing the “HOY” men looked exactly like Hasidim, side curls and all!

 

[4Squarebaby]

Mainstream? By whose definition? Are we lapsing into relativism here?

Being nominally Christian does not make one mainstream by default. Attempting to force God’s hand by artificially reconstituting Israel seems to take one out of the mainstream, does it not? Please explain.

I think the original post used “mainstream” where the general term is “mainline” or the high church versus the low church evangelic.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

Read this Chick Tract (which RPRPsych mentioned). It will give you an idea of the mindset of these sorts of Evangelicals. I had a conversation the other day with a man which, for his part, basically followed the comic panel-by-panel.

chick.com/reading/tracts/1000/1000_01.asp

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I consider chick tracts an insult to my intelligence

 

[RPRPsych]

Read this Chick Tract (which RPRPsych mentioned). It will give you an idea of the mindset of these sorts of Evangelicals. I had a conversation the other day with a man which, for his part, basically followed the comic panel-by-panel.

chick.com/reading/tracts/1000/1000_01.asp

Ah, thanks for posting this! (I got the title wrong, dope that I am. It’s “Love the Jewish People”, not “Be Kind to the Jewish People.”)

Well, I actually do love them, but not the way Chick wants me to - rather, the way Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI would want me to.

And Cajun, I’d be careful about dismissing Jack Chick’s works. Not because I agree with them (God forbid!) but because some people actually do think that way! The good Mr. Chick has followers even in sunny India, some whom I know personally. Don’t be fooled by the simplistic artwork and the crudity of the language and allegations; he does speak for a certain subset of the modern Evangelical movement.

 

[ltwin]

Mainstream? By whose definition? Are we lapsing into relativism here?

Well, if “mainstream” means being part of the main stream, then evangelical Protestants would be mainstream Christians. Many evangelicals in America, maybe even a majority, do believe that God still has a special purpose for the Jewish people. Many evangelicals express this belief through strong acts of support for the nation of Israel. You may disagree with Christians who support Israel for theological reasons, but they are certainly not on the fringe.

Relativism has nothing to do with it. Being mainstream does not make you right or wrong.

Being nominally Christian does not make one mainstream by default.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this. If you’re referring to evangelicals, I guess that’s your opinion. All I can say is that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

If you’re referring to Messianic Jews, I don’t see how wanting to maintain that you’re both Christian and Jew signifies nominal Christianity.

Attempting to force God’s hand by artificially reconstituting Israel seems to take one out of the mainstream, does it not?

Christians don’t need to “artificially reconstitute” Israel. Jewish people have reconstituted Israel, and I don’t see anything artificial about it.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

It it helps, since my comment may have started the “mainstream” argument…

Upon re-reading my words and seeing the reactions, the word I should have used was “mainline,” in the sense of one of the major branches of religion and/or of the common diversity. “Mainstream” religions, in the most literal sense are considered to be the foundational movements from which denominations spring, i.e., Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity. According to that most strictest definition I was wrong for my inclusion of the word in the first place.

My original reference was to a sect that, while claiming to be a part of evangelical Christianity, is largely disapproved of because it proselytizes Jews and makes observance of the Mosaic Law a requisite for Gentiles.

In my humble opinion as a Roman Catholic and a Hebrew (who spent over 10 years as a missionary to outlying communities and the deaf across the USA) Pentecostalism is an earmark of the American religious tapestry. There are many other religions that claim to be part of the Evangelical movement that I would include as well.

Why not ignoring great differences in many doctrinal issues, Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants (which include Evangelicals and Fundamentalists) share in a general body of major beliefs that do not accept the practices I was mentioning.

If I may add, I believe that due to being the subject of criticism and often being told that their religion is not “mainstream,” others read into my poorly written comments a continuation of this criticism they daily face. I don’t consider this being oversensitive because I have seen too many demonstrations of intolerance among Christians of all kinds and have seen real evil inflicted by these people upon fellow brethren as a result.

The issue of this thread is not who we personally accept as “mainstream” but seeking an answer as to why the original poster saw what they saw. The actual answer can only be answered by the individuals who were flying the flag of the State of Israel in the first place. Unless we were the ones whose actions inspired the original post, none of us can provide a definitive answer.

I personally apologize to others who mistook my comments. I have a great body of friends from varied denominational backgrounds and traditions. I love and greatly respect them all.

 

[Publisher]

Many fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative traditions have a strong affinity with Israel…mistakenly believing the modern State of Israel is the “Israel of God”, which it is not.

The New Israel incorporates Israel and the Body of Christ. No longer are “God’s Chosen People” part of an ethnic heritage, but are made up of those who live their lives “within the Kingdom of God”.

Many conservative traditions believe the establishment of the State of Israel is a fullfillment of prophesey…Israel…God’s Israel has no nationalistic ties.

It is an interesting phenomena however…national flags have no place in a house of worship.

 

[po18guy]

Christians don’t need to “artificially reconstitute” Israel. Jewish people have reconstituted Israel, and I don’t see anything artificial about it.

Except for the millions collected as tithes by evangelicals and funneled into repatriating Jews to Israel in the hope of starting the millennial reign, or bringing about the “rapture” or whatever a denomination’s beliefs in this regard are. I don’t see in scripture where it claims that the gentiles will re-constitute Israel.

 

[ltwin]

Except for the millions collected as tithes by evangelicals and funneled into repatriating Jews to Israel in the hope of starting the millennial reign, or bringing about the “rapture” or whatever a denomination’s beliefs in this regard are. I don’t see in scripture where it claims that the gentiles will re-constitute Israel.

Most evangelicals who support Israel don’t do so because they believe that they personally have the ability or the responsibility to reconstitute Israel or usher in the millennium. The main reason evangelicals support Israel is because (whether evangelicals support it or not) that nation is God’s chosen nation. It’s restoration is foreordained.

If it is true that Israel will be blessed and its enemies will be defeated, why wouldn’t evangelicals support Israel? Furthermore, why wouldn’t they want their own countries to offer support and friendship to Israel?

And I think you give Christian Zionists way too much credit for “reconstituting Israel.” As I recall, actual Jews had a lot to do with it.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The main reason evangelicals support Israel is because (whether evangelicals support it or not) that nation is God’s chosen nation. It’s restoration is foreordained.

A highly dubious and dangerous game when played by those in political power.

 

[po18guy]

Most evangelicals who support Israel don’t do so because they believe that they personally have the ability or the responsibility to reconstitute Israel or usher in the millennium. The main reason evangelicals support Israel is because (whether evangelicals support it or not) that nation is God’s chosen nation. It’s restoration is foreordained.

If it is true that Israel will be blessed and its enemies will be defeated, why wouldn’t evangelicals support Israel? Furthermore, why wouldn’t they want their own countries to offer support and friendship to Israel?

And I think you give Christian Zionists way too much credit for “reconstituting Israel.” As I recall, actual Jews had a lot to do with it.

Unwavering support for the state of Israel should be balanced against Israel’s suppression of Palestinian Christians, should it not?