"one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church"

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GKC said:
Moreover, Anglicans don’t speak with one voice.

Motley.

GKC
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I have come to understand that yet are in full communion with Lutherans who are of one voice per Confessions. So does an Anglican agree with the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue?
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I have come to understand that yet are in full communion with Lutherans who are of one voice per Confessions. So does an Anglican agree with the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue?
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I wouldn’t know how to determine, without querying all Anglican jurisdictions. Ccertainly the Continuum doesn’t.

GKC
 
GKC said:
I wouldn’t know how to determine, without querying all Anglican jurisdictions. Ccertainly the Continuum doesn’t.

GKC
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I what way does the ‘Continuum’ differ from the teachings as outlined in the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue? Is it merely a question of episcopacy/ apostolic succession?
 
GKC said:
Apostolic Succession, females in sacerdotal garments, hence validity of related sacraments, things like that.

GKC
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Yes, as I expected. What is remarkable in my opinion, is that the Dialogue between Lutherans and Catholics has continued well after Lutherans begin ordaining women [1970’s] and consecrating gay bishops.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, as I expected. What is remarkable in my opinion, is that the Dialogue between Lutherans and Catholics has continued well after Lutherans begin ordaining women [1970’s] and consecrating gay bishops.
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The ARCIC also continues meetings. Mostly meaningless ones, but so it goes.

GKC
 
On the other hand, some Orthodox groups have suspended further ecumenical talks with Lutherans, citing these very issues.
 
I am encouraged that we have come this far theologically. Lutherans seems to have reached common ground with Anglicans over episcopacy/ apostolic succession and with the Catholics on dogma.

Hard not see to the Hand of God!
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I am encouraged that we have come this far theologically. Lutherans seems to have reached common ground with Anglicans over episcopacy/ apostolic succession and with the Catholics on dogma.

Hard not to see to the Hand of God!
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EvangelCatholic:
Some Lutherans. Some Anglicans.

I defer to the RCs on your other conclusion. But do recall the* Magisterium
*

GKC
 
GKC said:
Some Lutherans. Some Anglicans.

I defer to the RCs on your other conclusion. But do recall the* Magisterium
*

GKC
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Is there a reference you could direct me in discussing Anglican disagreement with Lutherans on episcopacy/ AS? In light of the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Is there a reference you could direct me in discussing Anglican disagreement with Lutherans on episcopacy/ AS? In light of the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue.
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No. But there are those who recognize that the Swedish episcopacy was retained. Otherwise, not.

And those Anglicans who understand the valid subject for Orders know that Anglicans such as you are aligned with are making* Apostlicae Curae* a document prescient by around 118 years.

GKC
 
Peter_J said:
An interesting quote,

In 1978 Orthodox Archbishop Athenagoras remarked: “…the theological dialogue [between the Orthodox and the Anglicans] will continue, although now simply as an academic and informative exercise, and no longer as an ecclesial endeavor aiming at the union of the two churches."

anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/2007/10/and-where-might-this-lead.html
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That is, in effect, what the ARCIC process became. It was set in motion when Pope Paul VI apparently viewed the existent Anglican situation as capable of taking up where the Malines Conversations ended, roughly 40 years before.

Time proved otherwise.

GKC
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I am encouraged that we have come this far theologically. Lutherans seems to have reached common ground with Anglicans over episcopacy/ apostolic succession and with the Catholics on dogma.

Hard not see to the Hand of God!
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The 1960s and 70s saw numerous apparent convergences between the Catholic Church and various groups. About the only lasting fruit of those ecumenical conversations IMHO is the lessening of direct attacks across denominations. It’s not so much that they “reached” common ground, but that they realized the areas they always had in common, and eliminated misunderstandings. But the Catholic Church has a Magisterium, and the others do not. This makes a long term partnership difficult.

I am not so impressed about how closely the ecumenists seem to agree with each other, as I am uncertain about how closely the Lutheran, Catholic, or Anglican ecumenists connect with the Lutheran, Catholic, and Anglican regular people. If you want to see something happen, “the Hand of God”, it’s tempting to overlook certain other things.
The rapid
changes that most mainline denominations went through since the 1960s - far more than most people ever thought possible - makes Catholics more pessimistic about denominations that lack a Magisterium.
 
GKC said:
Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
An interesting quote,
In 1978 Orthodox Archbishop Athenagoras remarked: “…the theological dialogue [between the Orthodox and the Anglicans] will continue, although now simply as an academic and informative exercise, and no longer as an ecclesial endeavor aiming at the union of the two churches."
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Good point.

Hence, also, the coming of the Pastoral Provision (and later the Ordinariates).
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