"one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church"

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More talk of “full communion” between Lutherans and Catholics:
  1. What follows for the relations between our churches from the analysis above, supported by the biblical and historical explanations that follow below? Building upon the earlier Lutheran-Roman Catholic dialogues, Eucharist and Ministry and Facing Unity,156 we propose steps toward a full, mutual recognition and reconciliation of our ministries and the ultimate goal of full communion. We are aware of common challenges to overcome. Nevertheless, the mutual recognition of ministries need not be an all-or-nothing matter and should not be reduced to a simple judgment about validity or invalidity. In order to assess the degree of our koinonia in ordained ministry, a more nuanced discernment is needed reflecting the way that an ordained ministry serves the proclamation of the gospel and the administration of the sacraments, stands in continuity with the apostolic tradition, and serves communion among churches.
    usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/koinonia-of-salvation.cfm
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GKC said:
I await concrete evidence of those proposed steps.

GKC
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“Concrete” evidence are the actual Dialogues. I know of no other ecumenical work that has come this far to proclaim “unity in our diversity.”

Will reunion happen? I think so and the first step will be at the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. Eucharistic sharing is unlikely, in my opinion at this event but the very fact that these possibilities are even being considered is quite extraordinary.
“The awareness is dawning on Lutherans and Catholics that the struggle of the 16th century is over. The reasons for mutually condemning each other’s faith have fallen by the wayside.”
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EvangelCatholic said:
“Concrete” evidence are the actual Dialogues. I know of no other ecumenical work that has come this far to proclaim “unity in our diversity.”

Will reunion happen? I think so and the first step will be at the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. Eucharistic sharing is unlikely, in my opinion at this event but the very fact that these possibilities are even being considered is quite extraordinary.
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Concrete evidence of a change to the* Magisterium* will be a change to the Magisterium, not the conclusions of a commission. Let me know when something de fide occcurs. Let me know when it is procalimed authoritatively by the actual teaching function of the actual authorities who do such things, in the RCC.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Concrete evidence of a change to the* Magisterium* will be a change to the Magisterium, not the conclusions of a commission. Let me know when something de fide occcurs. Let me know when it is procalimed authoritatively by the actual teaching function of the actual authorities who do such things, in the RCC.

GKC
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Does the Orthodox Church accept the Magisterium?
 
GKC said:
Not in that form, AFAIK. But they possess valid orders (with the necessary distinctions).

**And they do not attempt to put collars on females.**GKC
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😛

It always comes down to this!
 
EvangelCatholic said:
“Concrete” evidence are the actual Dialogues. I know of no other ecumenical work that has come this far to proclaim “unity in our diversity.”

.
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What you call ecumenical work tends to be documents written by full time ecumenists; this has little to do with the actual Catholic, Lutheran, or Anglican churches. Ecumenists are a movement (a separate denomination?) unto themselves.

The events really important to Christian unity are what are they saying and doing on prolife, marriage, religious liberty, and other things that matter far more than ecumenism.
Which religious groups stand together protesting abortion? Which religious groups are backing the federal government’s crackdown on certain churches? Which churches are supporting the secular media’s effort to trash traditional marriage through their “social ministries”?

These positions, or standing together in persecution, are far more important to real Christians, in the real world, than the academic ecumenists. The Catholic Church, and denominations representing most Lutherans and most Episcopalians, are much farther apart than a generation ago, and the split is widening each year.
 
commenter said:
What you call ecumenical work tends to be documents written by full time ecumenists; this has little to do with the actual Catholic, Lutheran, or Anglican churches. Ecumenists are a movement (a separate denomination?) unto themselves.

The events really important to Christian unity are what are they saying and doing on prolife, marriage, religious liberty, and other things that matter far more than ecumenism.
Which religious groups stand together protesting abortion? Which religious groups are backing the federal government’s crackdown on certain churches? Which churches are supporting the secular media’s effort to trash traditional marriage through their “social ministries”?

These positions, or standing together in persecution, are far more important to real Christians, in the real world, than the academic ecumenists. The Catholic Church, and denominations representing most Lutherans and most Episcopalians, are much farther apart than a generation ago, and the split is widening each year.
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Are you saying the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity is a separate denomination? If so, I think you may want to read about your Church’s ecumenical work, starting with the Holy See.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Does the Orthodox Church accept the Magisterium?
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This has been cited many times, by Orthodox, as a significant difference between us (that we Catholics have a magisterium and the Orthodox do not) but I don’t really see it.

How does not-having-a-magisterium make the Orthodox different, concretely, than if they did? I wish some Orthodox could explain that to me.

Sorry for digressing. 😊
 
Peter_J said:
This has been cited many times as a significant difference between us (that we Catholics have a magisterium and the Orthodox do not) but I don’t really see it.

How does “not having a magisterium” make the Orthodox different, concretely, than if they did? I wish some Orthodox could explain that to me.

Sorry for digressing. 😊
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I am also interested in what the Magisterium means to Orthodox Christians and welcome clarification/ insight on this subject.
 
From the Anglican Communion website:
Affirmations
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In the light of the above acknowledgements, we make the following affirmations:
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The Anglican Church of Canada hereby recognizes the full authenticity of the ordained ministries of bishops and pastors presently existing within the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, acknowledging its pastors as priests in the Church of God and its bishops as bishops and chief pastors exercising a ministry of episcope over the jurisdictional areas of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada in which they preside.
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The Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada hereby recognizes the full authenticity of the ordained ministries of bishops, priests, and deacons presently existing within the Anglican Church of Canada, acknowledging its priests as pastors in the Church of God and its bishops as bishops and chief pastors exercising a ministry of episcope over the jurisdictional areas of the Anglican Church of Canada in which they preside.
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The Anglican Church of Canada and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada affirm each other’s expression of episcopal ministry as a sign of continuity and unity in apostolic faith. We thus understand that the bishops of both churches are ordained for life service of the Gospel in the pastoral ministry of the historic episcopate, although tenure in office may be terminated by retirement, resignation or conclusion of term, subject to the constitutional provisions of the respective churches.
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anglicancommunion.org/ministry/ecumenical/dialogues/lutheran/docs/waterloo.cfm
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In reading the Anglican-Lutheran Dialogue, I assume that the obstacle for further ecumenical work among Anglicans and Catholics has to do with the following:
Various Lutheran-Anglican dialogues have noted that Lutherans and Anglicans appeal to such foundational documents in different ways. The 1972 Pullach Report of the first international Anglican-Lutheran dialogue noted that for Lutherans “the confessions of the Reformation still occupy officially a prominent place in theological thinking and training, in catechetical teaching, and in the constitutions of the individual Lutheran churches and at the ordination of pastors” (§29). While the Anglican Thirty-Nine Articles are “universally recognised as expressing a significant phase in a formative period of Anglican thought and life,” “the significance attached to them today in Anglican circles varies between Anglican churches and between groups within Anglican churches.” The Book of Common Prayer, however, “has for a long time served as a confessional document in a liturgical setting” (§30). Other dialogues have made similar observations (US 1988 Implications, §69; Canada 1986 Report and Recommendation, Appendix 1, §6-7).
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No dialogue has seen this difference between Lutherans and Anglicans as a significant obstacle to communion. The Pullach Report stated that “Since confessional formularies are not a mark of the church, their significance lies in their expression of the living confession to the living Lord. Different approaches to the authority of these formularies are possible between communions so long as they share a living confession which is a faithful response to the living word of God as proclaimed in Holy Scripture” (§31).
anglicancommunion.org/ministry/ecumenical/dialogues/lutheran/docs/growth_in_communion_report.cfm#s16
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Interesting that Lutherans do not see it as a problem; thus full communion with Anglicans.
 
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