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Upgrade25
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How do you refute the idea that God transcends reason, rather than being reason Himself.
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TomFromMD
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What does it mean to “be reason”? And what does it mean to “transcend reason”?
I don’t know that I’d say that God “is” reason. Reason is abstract. God is concrete (in that He exists). I’d say that empirically, we can generally observe things happening in a reasonable way, and that this seems to be a reasonable universe. Thus it seems that God values reason, and that God is of his nature reasonable - perhaps because reason is a good.
I don’t know that I’d say that God “is” reason. Reason is abstract. God is concrete (in that He exists). I’d say that empirically, we can generally observe things happening in a reasonable way, and that this seems to be a reasonable universe. Thus it seems that God values reason, and that God is of his nature reasonable - perhaps because reason is a good.
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guanophore
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I have never had a need to refute such an idea. Why would it be necessary?How do you refute the idea that God transcends reason, rather than being reason Himself.
It is human reason that is limited. His ways are far above our ways, His thoughts above our thoughts.
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Beryllos
Guest
What is reason? It is a path we humans follow toward truth.
Truth would therefore be a higher good. God knows all truth, so he has no need of reason.
This is not to say that God contradicts reason. He just doesn’t need reason, any more than he needs maps, photographs, schoolbooks, laws, or even the Bible, all of which are means by which we humans come nearer to truth.
In this sense, I might agree that God transcends reason.
Truth would therefore be a higher good. God knows all truth, so he has no need of reason.
This is not to say that God contradicts reason. He just doesn’t need reason, any more than he needs maps, photographs, schoolbooks, laws, or even the Bible, all of which are means by which we humans come nearer to truth.
In this sense, I might agree that God transcends reason.
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NeedImprovement
Guest
REASON. In general, the mind in its function of attaining the truth. Also the basis or evidence used by the mind in its pursuit of truth. It differs from the intellect, whose proper role is to perceive the truth, whether arrived at by a reasoning process or perceived immediately as intuition. Reason, therefore, is a process, where intellect is possession
John 14:6a
Reason is a search for the truth. God is that truth. God does not need to search for Himself.Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life.”
Because it is a process, reasoning also involves a sequence of moments - a passage of time. God is not subject to time: Time is subject to God because He is eternal , and He created time. Only humans are subject to time.
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dmar198
Guest
By discussing reason’s limitations.How do you refute the idea that God transcends reason, rather than being reason Himself.
Remember the Positive Way and the Negative Way. The Positive Way finds good things in this world and then ascribes them to God. God is good, true, powerful, rational, and holy. The Negative Way finds limited things in this world and then denies them in God. Thus God is not evil, not material, not emotional, and not changing.
However, at some point the negative way and the positive way converge. When you deny any limit to God’s power, that is the same as affirming that God has Unlimited power. When you deny that there is any limit to God’s knowledge, you are actually affirming that God is omniscient.
And then comes the ultimate point: we realize that our minds are limited, and they cannot really know what unlimited power is like, or unlimited goodness, or unlimited anything. Limited things cannot understand unlimited things, and so All our ideas are limited. We can truly Say that God is unlimited in His power and knowledge and in all things, but whatever we are thinking when we say that is not spot-on because it comes from limited minds.
The Positive Way sees reason as a good thing and then ascribes it to God. So it is true in some sense to say that God is reason itself, because reason is good. God is justice itself, God is truth itself, God is power itself, God is being itself, God is everything good, including reason. But then the Negative Way comes and reminds us that our understanding of reason is limited, our human reason is limited, and we cannot grasp infinite reason. So it is true in a more profound sense to say that God is not reason, nor is He anything that we can understand. God is absolutely unlimited. We cannot define God in any spot-on way because to define things sets limits on them: it is this and not that. God is absolutely unlimited, and we ultimately have no spot-on ideas about what the unlimited is like.
I hope that helps.
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Lucretius
Guest
If by logic you mean “calculation,” then God has no need for such a thing, as others have said (do angels even need to reason like this?)
If by logic you mean “rational,” then God is logic…or the Logos, the Word. He is Rationality.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
If by logic you mean “rational,” then God is logic…or the Logos, the Word. He is Rationality.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
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littlestsouls2
Guest
God transcends human reason. Or any created intellect for that matter.
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
Hi, Upgrade,… God is concrete (in that He exists). I’d say that empirically, we can generally observe things happening in a reasonable way, and that this seems to be a reasonable universe. Thus it seems that God values reason, and that God is of his nature reasonable - perhaps because reason is a good.
In a mountain region, the peaks are swathed in clouds. The peaks transcend visibility, but the whole of the mountain is still there.
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