Only in church of usa?

[misericordie]

I just have a question to which I hope many can respond. Why is it that all the liturgical dancers, the army of “eucharistic ministers”, clown masses, Pizza Masses, and many :dancing: dancing and jumping up and down, or spinning on the floor masses only seem to be a problem in the C:bowdown2: atholic Church in the USA? In Latin America and SPAIN, none of that nonsence goes on. Especially Spain and Italy which hold on to the beutiful and CORRECT way of celebrating the Catholic Mass.

 

[system]

I think you are misinformed.

 

[Fast_ed75]

The simple answer is that many in the United States (and probably some parts of Western Europe) feel they are too sophisticated and have evolved from following orders from the Vatican and the “do it yourself mass” has resulted.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

I think you will see some funny liturgical things in Canada too.

In my experience, I haven’t seen anything too off the wall in France or Italy. But all of my experience has been in older churches in cities, including some Cathedral churches (which will generally follow the rules as closely as anyone in the diocese). But I’ve never gone, for example, to a newer church in the suburbs in Europe. I wonder if they would resemble modern American suburban churches.

Another issue is that many of the congregations that I saw in Europe were mostly old people, so the priests may perceive less of a demand for things like clowns and contemporary music. And maybe the European tastes in general are for more old-fashioned things, at least when it comes to religion. Even those young Europeans who are inclined towards religion seem to prefer more traditoinal styles.

One of the stranger things I’ve seen - and this is probably cultural rather than liturgical - is going to a Mass in southern Germany where all the men sat on one side and all the women sat on the other… it was about 10 minutes into Mass when I realized that I sat on the wrong side!

 

[Bobby_Jim]

I should note too that the current correct form of the Catholic liturgy is a product of European culture, defined (mostly) by Europeans, so one would expect that in Europe they will do it pretty much by the book.

 

[Marie]

I just have a question to which I hope many can respond. Why is it that all the liturgical dancers, the army of “eucharistic ministers”, clown masses, Pizza Masses, and many :dancing: dancing and jumping up and down, or spinning on the floor masses only seem to be a problem in the C:bowdown2: atholic Church in the USA? In Latin America and SPAIN, none of that nonsence goes on. Especially Spain and Italy which hold on to the beutiful and CORRECT way of celebrating the Catholic Mass.

Let’s not say THE USA shall we? Things are quirky on both left coast’s from all the complaints I see on this board. But leave the rest of us out of it.We are not all living in NY, or other so called liberal states. Not all of the USA is doing things wrong and not all of Europe is doing things right. I am not intimating goofy things are not done here and other places but when they are they don’t last long. We tend to send the goofballs back to whence they came (which is usually from the East coast or West coast) and they don’t want to stay here anyway. The shock is too much for their minds to handle.

Frankly, that is the situation from the beginning of the church also. Lot’s of quirky things have been done throughout history which do not square with our faith.

 

[Dolly]

Could it be, from the statistics I have read, that because the Mass attendance in particular Italy and France is so LOW (as opposed to the US say) and mostly older folks, that they might have trouble getting down on the floor and spinning .

 

[Fast_ed75]

It was a result of the implementation of Vatican II in America that was linked to liberal social engineering by ideologues, it does not represent authentic, orthodox Catholicism. The silliness that has overtaken seminaries and the USCCB, the homosexualization, the minimalist liturgical gnosticism, the iconoclastic wreckovation outrages, the lesbianism among some nuns, the theological dissent, the activist liberalism at such places as Notre Dame and Georgetown, the attempts through Liberation Theology to mate Catholicism with socialism or communism, the giddy charismatic prayer meetings, Enneagram seminars, the Protestantization of Catholic worship,“encounter group” theology and liturgy, the “pro-abortion” Catholic celebrity politicians, the gutting of parishes and dioceses, and the near-bankruptcy-inducing sex abuse settlements.

 

[Roamin_Catholic]

OK… I’m new to Catholicism and will be starting RCIA in September and all this has got me a bit concerned. Clown masses? Pizza Masses? Dancing and jumping up and down masses? Spinning on the floor masses? This is not the Catholic Church I thought I was joining. I haven’t witnessed anything like this… yet. If I did I think I would get up and leave. Which makes me ask; why don’t you get up and leave the mass when this kind of stuff happens?

 

[system]

Roamin_Catholic:

OK… I’m new to Catholicism and will be starting RCIA in September and all this has got me a bit concerned. Clown masses? Pizza Masses? Dancing and jumping up and down masses? Spinning on the floor masses? This is not the Catholic Church I thought I was joining.

Don’t worry, you’re not. It needs to be pointed out things like this are extremely rare. I’m talking needle-in-a-haystack uncommon. But unfortunately they get more mention than they deserve, by those who would have you believe there are deep problems in the Church. Please don’t be misled. Most Catholics have never been subjected to such absurdities.

 

[DJHohl]

Roamin_Catholic:

OK… I’m new to Catholicism and will be starting RCIA in September and all this has got me a bit concerned. Clown masses? Pizza Masses? Dancing and jumping up and down masses? Spinning on the floor masses? This is not the Catholic Church I thought I was joining. I haven’t witnessed anything like this… yet. If I did I think I would get up and leave. Which makes me ask; why don’t you get up and leave the mass when this kind of stuff happens?

Hi,

I would get up and leave! Don’t let this get you down on joining. You can always see what is right by looking to the Church teaching from Rome. If anyone else says differently, even a priest, you can see the true faith as taught by the Church, not by any one person’s opinion. We need non liberal people to join the Church and help the state of things in the U.S. It seems people here think they know better than 2,000 years of history and tradition. What it really comes down to is liberals trying to make the catholic church protestant and open to their lifestyles, ie: contraception, homosexuality, female priests, etc. Destroying the reverence of the Mass only helps the rest take place.

IMHO.

DJ

 

[JNB]

Dolly, the US isint doing all that well in mass attendence either. Its around 25% of Catholics in the US that go to mass on a weekly basis, and even lower than that for young adults, so its not that far ahead of Italy, whose mass attendence is around 18%. Cardinal George a couple of years ago remarked about the priest shortage and its causes, and he said the main cause was there are less Catholics going to mass now, Fewer active Catholics means fewer vocations.

 

[swampfox]

Roamin_Catholic:

OK… I’m new to Catholicism and will be starting RCIA in September and all this has got me a bit concerned. Clown masses? Pizza Masses? Dancing and jumping up and down masses? Spinning on the floor masses? This is not the Catholic Church I thought I was joining. I haven’t witnessed anything like this… yet. If I did I think I would get up and leave. Which makes me ask; why don’t you get up and leave the mass when this kind of stuff happens?

I’ve never seen these major abuses–my understanding is that clown masses are big in the new revised Episcopal church

 

[YinYangMom]

While we’re on the topic…when I visited Rome in the mid-80s I attended mass at the Vatican or whatever that huge place is called that we see on tv whenever the Pope is on (it just occurred to me that maybe that entire building isn’t really the Vatican and may have another name - I’m clueless)…

Anyway… I noticed that no one knelt during the Eucharistic prayer. I loved how there were several masses going on at the same time in different areas of the inside - each little area in a different language! But I asked someone about the kneeling and they said us westerners are the only ones who do that. I heard the same thing from a priest here in the states several years later.

Has anyone else heard anything like that or observed the same difference?

 

[yinekka]

Australia also has its fair share of clown Masses and other shanagans unfortunately. I just hope that priests will read Redemptionis Sacramentum and fix the abuses if they don’t the laity will have to complain firstly to the offending priest and if he doesn’t do anything to remedy the abuses then to the bishop and if he is a poor shepherd then we have to complain to Rome.

“For evil to prosper, it only takes good people to do nothing.” Adapted from Edmund Burke

 

[Crusader]

Marie:

Let’s not say THE USA shall we? Things are quirky on both left coast’s from all the complaints I see on this board. But leave the rest of us out of it.We are not all living in NY, or other so called liberal states. Not all of the USA is doing things wrong and not all of Europe is doing things right. I am not intimating goofy things are not done here and other places but when they are they don’t last long. We tend to send the goofballs back to whence they came (which is usually from the East coast or West coast) and they don’t want to stay here anyway. The shock is too much for their minds to handle.

Frankly, that is the situation from the beginning of the church also. Lot’s of quirky things have been done throughout history which do not square with our faith.

Many people who do not have the chance and/or means to live in California feel the need to bash it. This might very well extend to most of the West Coast and East Coast as well.

The same could be said about the entire USA. Just ask a European about the USA and you’ll likely hear an envious diatribe masked as a critique.

Please do not introduce this sort of envy and and resentment on this wonderful forum…

 

[misericordie]

:clapping: It seems some just cannot accept reality for what it is regarding MOST Dioceses in the USA. I say most, because one can only confer that these 4 dioceses in the USA are the ones who have not given in to the feminist agenda, clown masses, the consecration of english muffins, see through chalices that look more like wine glasses, kumbayah rock and roll charismatic hysteria masses where people drop to the floor when they are :“touched by the Spirit”. oh and lets not forget the demonstration of body worship called: liturgical dances:dancing: . I am one who has traveled far and wide, and I repeat as when I wrote this thread: The catholic Church in not only SPAIN but also Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Portugal, and even Mexico for the most part celebrate Masses which are (ESPECIALLY SPAIN) faithful to the rubrics, they use solid chalices not wine glasses, and there are NO LITURGICAL DANCERS, and better yet no catholic feminism.

To reply to the comment that not all is like the Catholic church in New York, the East Coast or the West Coast, I would have to say: IF ANYTHING, the EAST coast and my own diocese though it has liturgical abuses (not in most parishes) has MUCH less than the Catholic parishes in the Mid-West, and the South which are notorious for liturgical abuse of the Mass.
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam:tiphat:

 

[misericordie]

Oops, sorry. I was supposed to mention the 4 dioceses in the USA which are GREAT!!!, splendid, awsome REALLY Catholic 1) the great diocese of Denver, Colorado
2) the great diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska
3) the great diocese of Omaha, Nebraska
4) the great diocese of Colorado Springs
GOD BLESS THEM ALL and their GREAT Bishops.:clapping:

 

[Marie]

Crusader:

Many people who do not have the chance and/or means to live in California feel the need to bash it. This might very well extend to most of the West Coast and East Coast as well.

The same could be said about the entire USA. Just ask a European about the USA and you’ll likely hear an envious diatribe masked as a critique.

Please do not introduce this sort of envy and and resentment on this wonderful forum…

If your talking to me then you missed my point entirely. The posters in this thread doing all the criticizing are all from the East and the West. THAT was the point. It is overboard to say the whole USA. If they wish to criticize their own diocese fine. They seem to have the strange idea it is going on everywhere and it is not. AND they are the ones who complain the loudest and longest. If they do not wish to have their diocses pointed out then why do they off handedly continue to complain and paint everyone with the same brush? I took the time to go through more than this thread son, and the same complaints all are from a certain place. CA and the Eastern Stares. Try it yourself. Pick any thread. It’s the same ones all over this forum. You know it is skewed vision and I know it is skewed vision but again and again the same protesters come from these States and present themselves as if they were the entire country.

Example:
New York:

I just have a question to which I hope many can respond. Why is it that all the liturgical dancers, the army of “eucharistic ministers”, clown masses, Pizza Masses, and many dancing and jumping up and down, or spinning on the floor masses only seem to be a problem in the C atholic Church in the USA? In Latin America and SPAIN, none of that nonsence goes on. Especially Spain and Italy which hold on to the beutiful and CORRECT way of celebrating the Catholic Mass.

Illinois":

It was a result of the implementation of Vatican II in America that was linked to liberal social engineering by ideologues, it does not represent authentic, orthodox Catholicism. The silliness that has overtaken seminaries and the USCCB, the homosexualization, the minimalist liturgical gnosticism, the iconoclastic wreckovation outrages, the lesbianism among some nuns, the theological dissent, the activist liberalism at such places as Notre Dame and Georgetown, the attempts through Liberation Theology to mate Catholicism with socialism or communism, the giddy charismatic prayer meetings, Enneagram seminars, the Protestantization of Catholic worship,“encounter group” theology and liturgy, the “pro-abortion” Catholic celebrity politicians, the gutting of parishes and dioceses, and the near-bankruptcy-inducing sex abuse settlements

CA:

It seems people here think they know better than 2,000 years of history and tradition. What it really comes down to is liberals trying to make the catholic church protestant and open to their lifestyles, ie: contraception, homosexuality, female priests, etc. Destroying the reverence of the Mass only helps the rest take place.

NY:

It seems some just cannot accept reality for what it is regarding MOST Dioceses in the USA. I say most, because one can only confer that these 4 dioceses in the USA are the ones who have not given in to the feminist agenda, clown masses, the consecration of english muffins, see through chalices that look more like wine glasses, kumbayah rock and roll charismatic hysteria masses where people drop to the floor when they are :“touched by the Spirit”. oh and lets not forget the demonstration of body worship called: liturgical dances

And this idea there are only 4 Dioceses…now that is way off course. So who is it again that is introducing this sort of skewed envy and resentment? So far I repeat…the complaints all come from CA and Eastern States.That is my point and my point only. If anyone is brandishing envy and resentment it certainly is not those in between in the sandwich of the USA. Yet, these self same complainers feel free to use the entire USA as an example. One would hope they can document their charges before spewing rhetoric at many good Dioceses and Parish’s across the board, and the challenge was to wake someone up in these always complaining states to start defending the good parish’s and Diocese in them also.

Now, is there someone in those states who would like to say nice things about their state and stop bashing the entire church and all Dioceses across the board? Feel free to jump in and defend them. It would be nice to hear some balanced opinion from CA and the East if they live there and leave others to mention their own states in which the complainers do not live.

 

[system]

misericordie:

Oops, sorry. I was supposed to mention the 4 dioceses in the USA which are GREAT!!!, splendid, awsome REALLY Catholic

Do you really have enough in-depth knowledge of every diocese in the U.S. to be making statements like that? Somehow I doubt it.