Paganism article

[havemercy]

Taken from an article posted in my college’s student newspaper:
"…Pagan, which is the latin word for “from the country side” is not technically a religion, but more a way of life.

"Julie, a student, is the president of the Pagan Club. Her aim is to eliminate the stereotyping and social stigma that has so often been attached to paganism. She was born into the Catholic faith, but soon began to question her religion and has been pagan since the 6th grade. John, Julie’s shadow councilor and advisor, is a devout Christian-protestant who practices Wicca - mostly Celtic Wiccan. He follows the Celtic WIcca traditions and worships the Celtic gods and goddesses. “Paganism is not mainstream religious beliefs, rather more of a personal, spiritual approach to the world,” John said, when asked about what Paganism means to him as a whole. Both Julie and John have been members for two years.

“Paganism believes in the empowerment of women and this belief was used by the Catholic Church to attempt to convert pagans back to a proper religion. For example, the Virgin Mary played a huge role in the attempted conversations of the Pagans. It worked for a while, and some did convert. Paganism became perverted after the crusades.”

How can one be Protestant and Wiccan/Pagan?

The Catholic church managed to convert many pagans. It did not “work for a while”, and it seems to me like most did convert. “Back to a proper religion”? They were pagan in the first place.

I don’t know where these people get this information.

Comments? Critiques?

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Well, I can’t speak for Protestants but I’d bet the more sensible among them would agree with us that one cannot in all sincerenty claim to be Christian and worship other gods. This pagan-means-rural tactic is smoke and mirrors.

Scott

 

[Medbh]

here I have to agree. One can’t say to be Pagan and christian at the same time…it’s like saying one is a muslim and a christian…or a muslim and a jew…or a christian and a jew…etc etc… you’re either one or the other.

 

[havemercy]

I really hate what they said about Mary. GAH! That’s my mom!

 

[havemercy]

Paganism believes in the empowerment of women and this belief was used by the Catholic Church to attempt to convert pagans back to a proper religion. For example, the Virgin Mary played a huge role in the attempted conversations of the Pagans. It worked for a while, and some did convert. Paganism became perverted after the crusades.

I wish I could find the person who wrote this so I can find out who or what is influencing them. I just read again recently something along these lines and felt like bumping this thread.

Does anyone know of any resources dealing with this “empowerment of women” (which I know is false) and the thought that the Church quite simply used Mary in order to hoist pagans on board? Perhaps this topic has been treated in an article or in some CAF thread.

Many thanks.

 

[puzzleannie]

the actual word “pagan” means Pan worship, that is worship of Pan the god of nature, one of the oldest gods in the Greek pantheon, and one of the oldest gods, worshipped under different titles and aspects, in human religious practice. An element of this nature worship, possibly present even earlier than recognition of Pan as a discrete god, is goddess worship, of Demeter or under the names she was known in other cultures, sometimes identified with the feminine deity representing the earth itself. Yes paganism is a religion, that is, an attempt by humans to recognize deities or deity outside and above themselves and to render to them their due.

 

[Pierre_Marie]

Just as Christianity is the pinnacle of the religion of the ancient Israelites, it is also the pinnacle of every other “pagan” religion in the world.

The girl who was raised in the Church and became a “pagan” should ask herself (just as I myself did) "why did my ancestors become Christians? They were “pagans” and became Christians. Why?

Why?

Because they saw that Christianity was THE promised religion from the “gods” - that Jesus saved the world, and that means no more human sacrifices, no more superstitions of the natural world, none of that. Jesus came to the world, He is God, and He sacrificed Himself for our salvation. The “gods” had died with Jesus, but only He rose from the grave. Jesus is the Resurrection, the Way, Life itself.

THAT is why the “pagans” became Christians - the “pagan” priests knew it, the chieftains knew it, the people knew it. It didn’t take much to convert people - all it took was some education and a sign from God here and there and people converted. A history of conversion in Mexico is a good (more) modern example of how and why “pagans” convert.

 

[havemercy]

Just as Christianity is the pinnacle of the religion of the ancient Israelites, it is also the pinnacle of every other “pagan” religion in the world.

The girl who was raised in the Church and became a “pagan” should ask herself (just as I myself did) "why did my ancestors become Christians? They were “pagans” and became Christians. Why?

Why?

Because they saw that Christianity was THE promised religion from the “gods” - that Jesus saved the world, and that means no more human sacrifices, no more superstitions of the natural world, none of that. Jesus came to the world, He is God, and He sacrificed Himself for our salvation. The “gods” had died with Jesus, but only He rose from the grave. Jesus is the Resurrection, the Way, Life itself.

THAT is why the “pagans” became Christians - the “pagan” priests knew it, the chieftains knew it, the people knew it. It didn’t take much to convert people - all it took was some education and a sign from God here and there and people converted. A history of conversion in Mexico is a good (more) modern example of how and why “pagans” convert.

I could swallow that no problem. Someone else would have a harder time accepting that though, and might resist it by saying that the Church made them convert or coerced them into understanding. Then, of course, I’d ask for proof of this. And I’d also be asked for some information on my part…Which I don’t have. This message board, though lovely, isn’t good enough it seems!

Are there any good, well researched books out there that you’ve read and that you recommend on this topic? I’m looking an historical work, naturally.

Thanks.

the actual word “pagan” means Pan worship, that is worship of Pan the god of nature, one of the oldest gods in the Greek pantheon, and one of the oldest gods, worshipped under different titles and aspects, in human religious practice. An element of this nature worship, possibly present even earlier than recognition of Pan as a discrete god, is goddess worship, of Demeter or under the names she was known in other cultures, sometimes identified with the feminine deity representing the earth itself. Yes paganism is a religion, that is, an attempt by humans to recognize deities or deity outside and above themselves and to render to them their due.

I was wondering why you brought this up, and then I saw what I had originally written…

…this “empowerment of women” (which I know is false)…

I made a mistake. Sorry about that! What I meant to say was that the idea of the Christians elevating and empowering women (so to speak) in order to gain converts is false. Women have always been a powerful force to be reckoned with in Christianity and Judaism, even in such admittedly ‘patriarchal’ societies.

Thanks for the run-down.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

When they say Christian-Protestant I imagine they are putting forth that those 2 accept Jesus as well as the nature etc etc

This is sorta why protestants ask each other if they have found Jesus (I perfer to say do you believe or something like that) but its to get to the core to know who you are speaking to.

If I met that guy and he said he was Christian and then spoke about Wicca. Id correct to to understand he perhaps respects Jesus as a teacher or somethiing, perhaps even God. But not like in say the Nicene Creed.

Its definetely a smoke and mirrors thing. Alot of people figure oh of course Gods there and oh yea Jesus was His Son. But never really think beyond the basic initial thought. Its all very good however for weddings and funerals. So its easy to tack extra things on like Wicca.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I was a Christian Witch, for awhile (back when I was coming back to the Church).
The main tenant of Christian Witchcraft (different link than above) is focusing on Jesus and Mary as the representations of Divinity (the male and the female). Spellwork is looked at as prayer, and many Christian Witches adopt Catholic practices, such as prayers to saints and recitation of the rosary, although some pagans have a Wiccan rosary they use (more like prayer beads than a rosary).
The idea of Mary being used to convert pagans is a popular belief among pagans, and Mary is a considered a Goddess.

(I am providing these links as information on Christian Witch views and beliefs, I do not condone them)
“Christian, Hebrew and Gnostic Goddesses links”
“Mother Mary: Christian Goddess of Compassion”
“Mary: Queen of Heaven, Goddess and Saint”

 

[Medbh]

The girl who was raised in the Church and became a “pagan” should ask herself (just as I myself did) "why did my ancestors become Christians? They were “pagans” and became Christians. Why?

Why?

Because they saw that Christianity was THE promised religion from the “gods” - that Jesus saved the world, and that means no more human sacrifices, no more superstitions of the natural world, none of that. Jesus came to the world, He is God, and He sacrificed Himself for our salvation. .

well I am not my ancestors…and I have free will
they say humanity evolves

my religion is Nature, and Nature is alive. You worship a man who died 2000 years ago. I don’t see how you can attack my point of view. Jesus is as much mythology as Zeus or Demetra are.

 

[Cari]

I hear the “Mary was bait to get the pagans to convert” thing all the time. Mostly by anti-Catholics, though, not pagans. I’m thinking it stems from the “Babylonian pagan worship tainted Christianity and Catholics just can’t realize it” school of thought that Ralph Woodrow used to espouse.

One of the problems with paganism is that it is such a wide collection of beliefs from so many different sources. No one can claim “this is what the pagans used to do” with any sweeping accuracy. While there may have been members of some European tribes to whom the image of a “goddess” was transposed onto Our Lady, there may have been just as many tribes who didn’t. “Paganism” wasn’t some official, organized religion, so people who attempt, in modern times, to treat it as such by making broad “historical” statements about “what used to be” are acting foolishly.