"Parents, Students Fight Back After School Band Pulled from Football Game Over Halftime Hymn," Sing It Themselves from the Stands
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jilly4ski
Guest
For concerts at a public high school, we routinely sang religious songs. Including a Mass by Haydn, and other songs with religious themes. (mostly of a Christian nature, Catholic, protestant/shaker, spiritual, orthodox and even religious Christmas Hymns and one Jewish Hanukkah song). It was never a problem.
Question: how is it in the power of a high school band to establish a state church, as that is what the establishment clause prohibits?
Perhaps the band should create a tribute to the military and include the Navy hymn.
Jon
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
The problem is with the school. It forced students to attend religious assemblies with Christian proleslytizers and local church leaders, admitted to its violations of the establishment clause in court, and was subsequently prohibited from promoting religion.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Public schools are a State institution and the actions of this school constituted an attempt to establish a State religion as admitted by it in the lawsuit. The school is acting out of caution following a stern ruling from the Judge that the school is not to promote religion. The school determined the music the band intended to play may violate that order.
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JD1789
Guest
That’s a good point. Is the issue that the school is promoting religion or just the particular Christian religion?
A school has no legislative power to establish a state church. A tune does not establish a state church.
Jon
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
They wouldn’t like the Marching Southerners post-game tradition then.
youtube.com/watch?v=0eoOd1cIoQ0
youtube.com/watch?v=0eoOd1cIoQ0
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
If you think a tune is worth $10,000 then, by all means, encourage them to play away.
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Darryl1958
Guest
There is something ironic about Americans expressing their inner rebel through spontaneously breaking into the song “How great thou Art”.
It is such a degradation of the culture that many of us have grown up in to think that this is the kind of thing that is now banned from school assemblies.
Courts that would level fines on a ban for singing How Great Thou Art ought to feel ashamed, but it is truly a shameless culture that has come to power in America, and across the West for that matter.
It is such a degradation of the culture that many of us have grown up in to think that this is the kind of thing that is now banned from school assemblies.
Courts that would level fines on a ban for singing How Great Thou Art ought to feel ashamed, but it is truly a shameless culture that has come to power in America, and across the West for that matter.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
I think it reflects more poorly on the state of Christianity when people use State resources to lock kids in an auditorium and force them to listen to attempts to convert them.
meltzerboy
New member
Isn’t it more of an endorsement of a religion, which might be regarded as a subcategory of an establishment of a state church?
Suudy
Active member
Any more so than reading the Psalms in English class? Or learning Handel’s Messiah in music class? Why is playing “How Great Thou Art” in a band any more endorsement than these others?
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styrgwillidar
Guest
"Officials were worried that the performance would violate a July 10 court order by U.S. District Judge Carlton Reeves, who said, “Defendants are permanently enjoined from including prayer, religious sermons or activities in any school sponsored event including but not limited to assemblies, graduations, award ceremonies, athletic events and any other school event.”
So, Emperor Napolean appears to know more about the background as to why the order was issued. This is more than just an administrator or two objecting to a musical selection by the band during performances. It’s the fact that a judge issues a ruling which included athletic events.
Now, you could argue that the band playing musical selections in isolation from anything else wouldn’t be a problem. However, how much tax-payer money or tax-payer funded labor hours do you want to spend defending that the band playing religious themed music doesn’t fall under the judge’s order?
Whatever the history resulting in the judge’s order, the administrators need to exercise their judgment in adhering to it.
So, Emperor Napolean appears to know more about the background as to why the order was issued. This is more than just an administrator or two objecting to a musical selection by the band during performances. It’s the fact that a judge issues a ruling which included athletic events.
Now, you could argue that the band playing musical selections in isolation from anything else wouldn’t be a problem. However, how much tax-payer money or tax-payer funded labor hours do you want to spend defending that the band playing religious themed music doesn’t fall under the judge’s order?
Whatever the history resulting in the judge’s order, the administrators need to exercise their judgment in adhering to it.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Does anyone see a problem with the school’s music director choosing the religious song and teaching it to the band members well before the football game ?
Jim
Jim
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styrgwillidar
Guest
I don’t. My kids sang religious music as part of performances in a public high school choir. No one ever complained-- and it was in a major metropolitan area.
I don’t think music with a religious theme should be off limits for performing.
I do see a problem with going forward performing the music in the face of a court order without getting it cleared by the judge as being consistent with his order. Bad to appear to disregard court orders.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
As far as you know, no one complained.
However, people have complained it’s how these cases end up in the courts.
Jim
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Could it be viewed as an acknowledgment of a religion rather than an endorsement? My kids learned the Dredel song in public school. I had no problem with it. They also celebrated Halloween, to the dismay some of some fundamental parents
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