"Parents, Students Fight Back After School Band Pulled from Football Game Over Halftime Hymn," Sing It Themselves from the Stands

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I wonder how folks would feel if the school/band were singing Islamic hymns or prayers before or during football games.

It is very common, and unfortunate, in certain areas of the US- to “sneak” protestant hymns and prayers into student life. I saw it constantly in my public HS in rural VA.
 
ringil said:
I wonder how folks would feel if the school/band were singing Islamic hymns or prayers before or during football games.

It is very common, and unfortunate, in certain areas of the US- to “sneak” protestant hymns and prayers into student life. I saw it constantly in my public HS in rural VA.
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Heck, what would be the reaction in many of these areas if Ave Maria was sung ?

Jim
 
styrgwillidar said:
I don’t. My kids sang religious music as part of performances in a public high school choir. No one ever complained-- and it was in a major metropolitan area.

I don’t think music with a religious theme should be off limits for performing.
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Agreed. Would people complain if religious art and architecture are being studied in art and architecture classes? Michelangelo’s work off base? Handel’s Messiah? Mozarts’ Requiem? We are losing a lot of beauty if this is the case.
I do see a problem with going forward performing the music in the face of a court order without getting it cleared by the judge as being consistent with his order. Bad to appear to disregard court orders.
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Debatable.
 
Christians need to stop supporting government schools. Why would any Christian want to send their kid to a place that has been made to specifically exclude God and the Faith?
EmperorNapoleon said:
The problem is with the school. It forced students to attend religious assemblies with Christian proleslytizers and local church leaders, admitted to its violations of the establishment clause in court, and was subsequently prohibited from promoting religion.
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Schools force kids to attend. That is what they do. Schools subject kids to proselytization. That is what they do. I’m not sure why Christian proselytizer would be treated any different from evolution, global warming, homosexual or secular humanist proselytizers. These are all various kinds of beliefs.
meltzerboy said:
Isn’t it more of an endorsement of a religion, which might be regarded as a subcategory of an establishment of a state church?
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A state church is a very specific thing. Endorsing a religious belief doesn’t come anywhere close to establishing a church or religion. The first amendment was limited to Congress. The states at the singing of the current constitution had state churches, religious tests and promoted certain religions. For the playing of a song at a high school to violate the first amendment the amendment would have to say and mean something other than what it actually does. If this is illegal it is only based on the opinion of judges which we know from recent Supreme Court rulings are lacking in facts and reason.
 
exnihilo;
Christians need to stop supporting government schools. Why would any Christian want to send their kid to a place that has been made to specifically exclude God and the Faith?
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Well for myself 35 years ago, it was because the Catholic School principle told my wife and myself, that my daughter would have to go to a different school for 3rd grade, because she did not fit well with their curriculum. BTW, the 2nd grade she had just completed, was the first without the nuns, as the order had left the parish.

After the positive experience in public school, she would never have seen a day in that Catholic school after what they put us through.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well for myself 35 years ago, it was because the Catholic School principle told my wife and myself, that my daughter would have to go to a different school for 3rd grade, because she did not fit well with their curriculum. BTW, the 2nd grade she had just completed, was the first without the nuns, as the order had left the parish.

After the positive experience in public school, she would never have seen a day in that Catholic school after what they put us through.
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The options are not a single Catholic school vs the entire government school system. If you didn’t have the government school system you’d have much greater variety. You’d have choices of schools. But regardless it doesn’t address the issue of why you’d send your kids to a place that specifically exiles God and Jesus Christ. During summer would you want to send them to atheist camp for forty hours a week?
 
exnihilo said:
The options are not a single Catholic school vs the entire government school system. If you didn’t have the government school system you’d have much greater variety. You’d have choices of schools. But regardless it doesn’t address the issue of why you’d send your kids to a place that specifically exiles God and Jesus Christ. During summer would you want to send them to atheist camp for forty hours a week?
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Without the state schools the options would be less.

The reason why the state got involved in education was because private schools were not serving everyone.

Jim
 
meltzerboy said:
Isn’t it more of an endorsement of a religion, which might be regarded as a subcategory of an establishment of a state church?
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How about the Marine Corp.

Here is a video of one of their bands playing the Marine Hymn (From the Halls of Montezuma).
youtube.com/watch?v=MbYRmTceZ1c

Should that be banned?

Did this band do anything that the Marine Corp has not done, namely, play a Hymn
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Without the state schools the options would be less.

The reason why the state got involved in education was because private schools were not serving everyone.
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In the US government schools were mostly a means to create obedient factory workers and citizens of the state. You can look up early pioneers in ‘public education’ and they said as much.

I don’t know how you can think without government schools there would be less options. Look at colleges. It is only recently that the government has really ramped up involvement in this level of education. Prior to that there were plenty of private colleges. Still after the major growth of state colleges there are plenty of private ones.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Without the state schools the options would be less.

The reason why the state got involved in education was because private schools were not serving everyone.

Jim
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As far as I recall, Catholic missionaries came to the US specifically to teach Native American and black children. Since teaching blacks how to read was against the law in Missouri, the nuns taught them on islands in the Mississippi River.

Catholic schools in St. Louis were desegregated by Joseph Cardinal Ritter in 1947, under penalty of excommunication, well before the public schools were ordered to do so in 1954.

To this day, the Archdiocese of St. Louis offers scholarships to ALL qualifying low income children through its Today and Tomorrow foundation.

It has always been that way in our community.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The Marine Corps Hymn isn’t a religious hymn.

Jim
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If the Army and the Navy Ever look on Heaven’s scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded By United States Marines.

So here we have a Corp of the US Military making categorical statements on the existence of Heaven and the salvation status of their members.
 
Brendan said:
If the Army and the Navy Ever look on Heaven’s scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded By United States Marines.

So here we have a Corp of the US Military making categorical statements on the existence of Heaven and the salvation status of their members.
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How many sing the Marine Corps Hymn past the 1st Verse ?

Even if you get to the 3rd, it’s hardly a religious song, but I give you that there would be some who complain it is.

Jim USMC 1970-1976
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
The Navy Hymn is religious, though.
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That’s not the US Navy Hymn, but The Navy Himyn or Christian Navy Hymn. It was written by
William Whiting of Winchester, England

Anchors Away is the traditional US Navy Hymn

That being said, God is mentioned, yet it still not a religious hymn

Jim
 
Suudy said:
Any more so than reading the Psalms in English class? Or learning Handel’s Messiah in music class? Why is playing “How Great Thou Art” in a band any more endorsement than these others?
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Maybe the context makes a difference. IOW, in the two examples you mention–reading the Bible as literature and learning Handel’s Messiah in music class–religious references are linked to English literature and to music, respectively. However, to expressly learn, rehearse, and play a religious song at a football game is taking religion out of context and highlighting it in the public arena.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
I think it reflects more poorly on the state of Christianity when people use State resources to lock kids in an auditorium and force them to listen to attempts to convert them.
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I know you do.
My commentary was addressed precisely to the pervasiveness of that attitude throughout society today.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Does anyone see a problem with the school’s music director choosing the religious song and teaching it to the band members well before the football game ?

Jim
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Lots of people do.
I certainly don’t.
 
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