Parish Councils, in general

[Crumpy]

There doesn’t seem to be a thread on this subject, and I’m not sure even which forum to post in. I’d hate to get lost in the water cooler flotsam and jetsam.

My parish council is virtually invisible. There is no news about its proceedings announced in church or posted in the bulletin or even posted in the church vestibules.

My suspicion is that they don’t really do much, and that is reinforced by the fact that they only seem to meet for six months out of the year. Meetings (time and location) are not announced, and minutes are not published.

1. Where did the idea of parish councils arise?
2. Are there rules for how they are to operate?
3. Given my experience, I’d say that the parish would be better served by having questions addressed to and voted by the parishioners at large, rather than by this invisible and unaccountable group.

I had the curious experience that the priest told me to bring up a matter to the parish council. So, I called the council head, only to find out that the council had recessed for the summer. I was told by this fellow NOT to attend the meeting, that he would bring up the matter. Then, the following October, I called the council head (he did not extend the courtesy of calling me back) about the matter. Low and behold, he and the priest discussed the matter and the same priest tabled it before it got to the council. How do you like that?

 

[ncjohn]

Crumpy:

There doesn’t seem to be a thread on this subject, and I’m not sure even which forum to post in. I’d hate to get lost in the water cooler flotsam and jetsam.

My parish council is virtually invisible. There is no news about its proceedings announced in church or posted in the bulletin or even posted in the church vestibules.

My suspicion is that they don’t really do much, and that is reinforced by the fact that they only seem to meet for six months out of the year. Meetings (time and location) are not announced, and minutes are not published.

1. Where did the idea of parish councils arise?
2. Are there rules for how they are to operate?
3. Given my experience, I’d say that the parish would be better served by having questions addressed to and voted by the parishioners at large, rather than by this invisible and unaccountable group.

I had the curious experience that the priest told me to bring up a matter to the parish council. So, I called the council head, only to find out that the council had recessed for the summer. I was told by this fellow NOT to attend the meeting, that he would bring up the matter. Then, the following October, I called the council head (he did not extend the courtesy of calling me back) about the matter. Low and behold, he and the priest discussed the matter and the same priest tabled it before it got to the council. How do you like that?

To the best of my knowledge, while there is a requirement for a finance council, there is no actual requirement that a parish have a parish council, and it is strictly advisory to the priest if there is one, with no obligation on the part of the priest to follow any of their suggestions or recommendations.

I was on the parish council at our local parish for several years. When the current priest came in, we had a couple meetings and then it all but ceased to exist except for when he would call a meeting to announce his latest plan for buying statues or building a grotto or something. Previous priests had effectively used the council to delegate work load, monitor ministries, suggest improvements, etc. This one is a one man show who delegates next to nothing and seems to trust nobody.

So in the end, a parish council is what the priest will allow it to be. Some are very active and good while others are nearly “invisible” like yours.

Peace,

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Crumpy:

There doesn’t seem to be a thread on this subject, and I’m not sure even which forum to post in. I’d hate to get lost in the water cooler flotsam and jetsam.

My parish council is virtually invisible. There is no news about its proceedings announced in church or posted in the bulletin or even posted in the church vestibules.

My suspicion is that they don’t really do much, and that is reinforced by the fact that they only seem to meet for six months out of the year. Meetings (time and location) are not announced, and minutes are not published.

1. Where did the idea of parish councils arise?
2. Are there rules for how they are to operate?
3. Given my experience, I’d say that the parish would be better served by having questions addressed to and voted by the parishioners at large, rather than by this invisible and unaccountable group.

I had the curious experience that the priest told me to bring up a matter to the parish council. So, I called the council head, only to find out that the council had recessed for the summer. I was told by this fellow NOT to attend the meeting, that he would bring up the matter. Then, the following October, I called the council head (he did not extend the courtesy of calling me back) about the matter. Low and behold, he and the priest discussed the matter and the same priest tabled it before it got to the council. How do you like that?

There should be a set of rules governing parish councils and finance councils from your diocese. Here every parish council meeting must have notes taken and they must be available to members of the parish. The meetings are open to all members of the parish. You may request permission to speak or personally bring up an issue. That would also include all Commission meetings. The parish finance council must report to the parish once a year usually.
I would contact your diocese and obtain a copy of the parish council guidelines and see just what is requiredby your Bishop.

 

[Orionthehunter]

ncjohn:

To the best of my knowledge, while there is a requirement for a finance council, there is no actual requirement that a parish have a parish council, and it is strictly advisory to the priest if there is one, with no obligation on the part of the priest to follow any of their suggestions or recommendations.

I was on the parish council at our local parish for several years. When the current priest came in, we had a couple meetings and then it all but ceased to exist except for when he would call a meeting to announce his latest plan for buying statues or building a grotto or something. Previous priests had effectively used the council to delegate work load, monitor ministries, suggest improvements, etc. This one is a one man show who delegates next to nothing and seems to trust nobody.

So in the end, a parish council is what the priest will allow it to be. Some are very active and good while others are nearly “invisible” like yours.

Peace,

In our diocese there are requirements for both a Parish Pastoral Council and a Finance Council (they can be merged by members being on both). Both council’s are advisory in that the Priest is always free to accept or reject their “counsel”. However, both have some Canon Law obligations to the Bishop. In the case of both, among others specific to their responsibilities, if they ever have evidence of wrong doing in areas under their purview (liturgical, pastoral, or finance) they are REQUIRED to report it. The Bishop is then free to decide what follow-up to pursue if any.

This brings me to another point. Bishop’s have taken the brunt of the priest abuse scandal but I keep asking where was the Pastoral Council members? I was hunting w/ a guy who formerly was in Massachusetts and this issue came up. He talked about how he as just a lay person had told his son to stay away from a particular priest who ultimately was charged with many offenses over a long period of time. Now if a lay parent not involved actively beyond going to Mass suspected and had heard rumors, what in the world were those in authority doing? Are they co-conspirators in a cover-up? If I lived in Mass. or another diocese w/ epidemic instances (our diocese has had only two cases and they both occurred pre-1970), I’d be asking the laity where in the heck they were and potentially pushing for them to be held accountable (morally if not financially).

 

[ncjohn]

Orionthehunter:

In our diocese there are requirements for both a Parish Pastoral Council and a Finance Council (they can be merged by members being on both).

Hey Orion! Good to see you again.

Apparently from what you say the requirements for having a pastoral council vary from diocese to diocese. I know ours does not require one although they do require a finance council.

BTW, good points about the relationship between the abuse thing and the councils, although it may well be that members of councils did in fact report these things, only to have them ignored or covered up anyway. As you note, they are now required to report such things and I would hope that anyone in that position would keep records of how and when they did so to make sure they don’t end up on the fuzzy end of the lollipop themselves.

 

[jrabs]

Crumpy:

My suspicion is that they don’t really do much, and that is reinforced by the fact that they only seem to meet for six months out of the year. Meetings (time and location) are not announced, and minutes are not published.

Hey Crumpy, how I wish you attended my parish! I’d vote you onto parish council right quick!

I currently serve on my council. Had a meeting last night and all we discussed was updating the parish constitution - which no one even knows we have.

I often feel like no one in the parish cares that we have monthly meetings, publish the minutes promptly, and beg for attendance. Participation is scant for all parish events and all events seem to fall smack on council member laps. Frankly, little can get done with so few hands.

Seems like we both have similar yet opposite problems.

 

[Orionthehunter]

ncjohn:

Hey Orion! Good to see you again.

Apparently from what you say the requirements for having a pastoral council vary from diocese to diocese. I know ours does not require one although they do require a finance council.

BTW, good points about the relationship between the abuse thing and the councils, although it may well be that members of councils did in fact report these things, only to have them ignored or covered up anyway. As you note, they are now required to report such things and I would hope that anyone in that position would keep records of how and when they did so to make sure they don’t end up on the fuzzy end of the lollipop themselves.

Good to see you too. FYI: I am understanding that Parish Pastoral Councils are required in Canon Law. If you want me to confirm, I’ll do so.

 

[puzzleannie]

Orionthehunter:

Good to see you too. FYI: I am understanding that Parish Pastoral Councils are required in Canon Law. If you want me to confirm, I’ll do so.

a parish council is not required by canon law
in this country a finance council is required and each diocese has regulations governing its makeup and activities, and a parish council is strongly recommended but not required. the particular law of each diocese governs parish councils.

 

[buffalo]

We have seen a movement to what are known as “pastoral councils”. The purpose is to provide information flow down to the parishioners and up to the pastor.

We have categorized commisions that meet separately and then representatives of those commisions meet together with the pastor every other month…

 

[chicago]

ncjohn:

So in the end, a parish council is what the priest will allow it to be. Some are very active and good while others are nearly “invisible” like yours.

Peace,

This is what I have found to be the case, also. Some parish councils are little more than a group of guys who get together to discuss a couple of things happenning at the parish and then play cards for the rest of the night. Others are quite extensive with genuine advisory committes, retreats they go on and everything. In fact, some may take themselves a bit too seriously in pumping up their perceived self-importance. Then, there are places where a parish council is practically non-existant or marginalized by a pastor who really would rather not have to deal with them.

Here in Chicago, they made a big deal out of councils being Parish Pastoral Councils. For several years the archdiocese bugged parishes to fall in line and get with the program. There were set guidelines which were expected, parish leaders had to attend a yearly conference to learn, and everything. Over time, some parishes have grown with that and even developed it to suit their own particular needs. Others have let it fall largely by the wayside.

The idea is that a council should serve in a consultative manner to the pastor, reflecting the concerns and needs of the parish and helping him to carry out the parish’s mission. Along with this, a council and it’s accompanying focus commissions should enable the parish ministries to better collaborate with each other. So it’s all about functioning properly as a family while respecting the individual charisms of parish members.

Yet, the reality is that a parish is still a family, with all of it’s common disfunctions. So not only will each parish’s council look different in practice, but it may also function more or less well or poorly based upon that.

Now, a good suggestion which I have heard is that perhaps the name ought to be changed to Parish “Counsel”.

 

[Scout]

I am a member of our parish council. I love it. We meet every month, except August, and if there is bad weather the day of our meeting.

We do a lot of work, too. We organize most of our parish’s social service projects (one every month), generations of faith, and many other things going on in the parish. Our priest, Fr. Jeff, is also at every meeting. He is very involved.

We also have a good set of by-laws that we adhere to. For example, each member is only allowed to serve for three years, then they have to take at least one year off. The way it’s set up is great because each year there are at least three people who leave the council and three new people that come in. So, no one is on the council long enough to get a big ego trip and try to start taking over. Also, each year we elect a new person to be in charge and run the meetings. That also keeps anyone from getting a power-trip.

I think some parishes are just different than others. I’m really thankful that mine is so well-organized and involved as much as it is.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Crumpy]

Well, as I now recall the matter, the priest seemed to have some specific ideas when he arrived here. With only one priest in a small parish (500 families), he wanted to have pastoral representatives, about one per ten families. These were supposed to visit and report upwards to him – I guess – on what was happening in each family.

I think this idea collapsed, when no one was nominated to fill those positions.

I don’t know that the idea of having these “spys” out there sat very well with anybody.

The idea may have had some merit, but I know that I didn’t want to divulge information over which I had so subsequent control. – information that might be misinterpreted, at the very least.