Penitential Rite

[Holland]

I have been to 3 different churches in the last 3 weeks (I travel a lot) and the Penitential Rite was different in each church. The last one I went to was really different. We all knelt with the priest and when he said Lord, have mercy we sang a few lines of Latin, which I can’t remember. It was quite nice but I was wondering if they have to get some sort of permission to change parts of the Mass? Is there some sort of book that has a selection of things you can do during Mass? I know about the GIRM but there must be something else they are using.

 

[muledog]

Holland:

I have been to 3 different churches in the last 3 weeks (I travel a lot) and the Penitential Rite was different in each church. The last one I went to was really different. We all knelt with the priest and when he said Lord, have mercy we sang a few lines of Latin, which I can’t remember. It was quite nice but I was wondering if they have to get some sort of permission to change parts of the Mass? Is there some sort of book that has a selection of things you can do during Mass? I know about the GIRM but there must be something else they are using.

The same thing happened at the parish I attended last weekend. The celebrant and congregation all knelt during the Penitential Rite (which was the Kyrie with added tropes).

I couldn’t find anywhere in the GIRM or Order of Mass where this is permitted.

I didn’t have time to ask the celebrant about it after Mass.

 

[BlestOne]

My parish has been doing the Kyrie as well. I figured it is a lenten thing, but maybe they have decided to bring back the kyrie…yeah!!! I am betting not though. Our teen group was singing and it sounded beautiful. (That in itself is a miracle)…Hey while we are on the subject…has anyone elses parish been doing the song The Wind and the Willows?..What the heck? I have added that to my least fav list!!

 

[Chatter163]

There are several options for the penitential rite, to wit:

1. The *Confiteor *(“I confess to Almighty God…”)
2. The Kyrie in a litany form (“You were sent to heal the contrite…”), of which there are several possible variations.
3. The short “Lord, we have sinned against you…” form
4. The Asperges (sprinkling with holy water).

 

[Holland]

Well it wasn’t the traditional Kyrie litany, that’s for sure. The person doing the music said it was a very beautiful (and it was) ancient latin prayer. At any rate, I was just wondering if there was some sort of cookbook these folks were using to spice up the Mass.

 

[John_Lilburne]

Dispite all the options for the penitential rite, the correct posture is standing: “43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect.” (2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal).

I think I am the only member of the congregation at the 11.00 am cathedral Mass in Melbourne, Australia, who does this. Most stand after the Entrance chant, for the entrance hymn. Archbishop Hart is standing a the beginning of the Penitentail rite, but sits for the Kyrie, as do the rest of the congregation. The choir are correct, standing from the chant to the end of the Opening Prayer (i.e. Collect).

 

[Chatter163]

Well it wasn’t the traditional Kyrie litany, that’s for sure. The person doing the music said it was a very beautiful (and it was) ancient latin prayer. At any rate, I was just wondering if there was some sort of cookbook these folks were using to spice up the Mass.

To what do you refer when you say the “traditional Kyrie litany”?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I was always under the impression that the Kyrie was in Greek. Anyway, we did the kneeling you described a few years back at Lent. LOVED IT. Now, we are facing the middle and eliminating any entrance hymn and having this sort of Lord Have Mercy procession.

 

[Elzee]

During Lent our cantor sings the prayers and the congregation sings the response ( ‘Lord Have Mercy’’, Christ Have Mercy, Lord Have Mercy). Can the cantor do this? I thought priest or deacon had to ‘lead’ the penitential rite prayers?

 

[John_Lilburne]

Elzee:

During Lent our cantor sings the prayers and the congregation sings the response ( ‘Lord Have Mercy’’, Christ Have Mercy, Lord Have Mercy). Can the cantor do this? I thought priest or deacon had to ‘lead’ the penitential rite prayers?

Yes, the cantor can lead this.

The 1984 Ceremonial of Bishops has it clearly: “When the third form of the penitential rite is used, the invocations are said by the bishop, by a deacon, or by another suitable minister.” (From Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 53.)

Also from the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal:

“The Kyrie Eleison
52. After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor having a part in it. As a rule, each acclamation is sung or said twice, though it may be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Act of Penitence, a trope may precede each acclamation.”

It is also in the Roman Missal’s Order of Mass. From the 1985 translation of the Roman Missal:

“The priest (or other suitable minister) makes the following or other invocations:
Priest: You were sent to heal the contrite: Lord, have mercy. …”. (From The Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, page 361).

From the 2002 Missale Romanum’s Order of Mass: “Postea sacerdos, vel diaconus vel alius minister, sequentes, vel alias, invocations cum Kyrie, eleison profert:” It allows a priest, deacon or other minister to lead the kyrie.
(From Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 508.)

 

[Fidei_Defensor]

Holland:

Well it wasn’t the traditional Kyrie litany, that’s for sure. The person doing the music said it was a very beautiful (and it was) ancient latin prayer. At any rate, I was just wondering if there was some sort of cookbook these folks were using to spice up the Mass.

Could it have been this:

R: Miserere nostri, Domine
V: Quia peccavimus tibi

R: Ostende nobis, Domine, misericordiam tuam
V: Ut salutare tuum da nobis

R: Misereatur nostri Omnipotens Deus et dimissis peccatis nostris, perducat nos ad vitam aeternam.
V: Amen

 

[seeker4truth]

Hello all!

I am a convert to the Church, and I was wondering about the Penitential Rite. When I go to the Penitential service for Lent, it is just like going to Confession right? Also, is there somewhere I can find out what I do?? I know I confess my sins, but do I just walk in and say “you aint gonna believe this!” ? What about the closing, do I say the Act of Contrition?

Thanks for taking the time to help me out!

-Neil

 

[Holland]

Fidei Defensor:

Could it have been this:

R: Miserere nostri, Domine
V: Quia peccavimus tibi

R: Ostende nobis, Domine, misericordiam tuam
V: Ut salutare tuum da nobis

R: Misereatur nostri Omnipotens Deus et dimissis peccatis nostris, perducat nos ad vitam aeternam.
V: Amen

YUP! That’s it!

 

[Elzee]

John Lilburne:

Yes, the cantor can lead this.

The 1984 Ceremonial of Bishops has it clearly: “When the third form of the penitential rite is used, the invocations are said by the bishop, by a deacon, or by another suitable minister.” (From Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 53.)

Also from the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal:

“The Kyrie Eleison
52. After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor having a part in it. As a rule, each acclamation is sung or said twice, though it may be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Act of Penitence, a trope may precede each acclamation.”

It is also in the Roman Missal’s Order of Mass. From the 1985 translation of the Roman Missal:

“The priest (or other suitable minister) makes the following or other invocations:
Priest: You were sent to heal the contrite: Lord, have mercy. …”. (From The Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, page 361).

From the 2002 Missale Romanum’s Order of Mass: “Postea sacerdos, vel diaconus vel alius minister, sequentes, vel alias, invocations cum Kyrie, eleison profert:” It allows a priest, deacon or other minister to lead the kyrie.
(From Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 508.)

I guess I didn’t realize what what was meant by ‘minister’. I thought this applied to someone who has been ordained (priest or deacon)

 

[acadian]

I think you are confusing the Penitential Rite which happens at the beginning of every Mass with a Penance Service which often occurs during Advent and Lent in some parishes.

I went to one during Advent. There were some scripture readings at the beginning and then one of the priests read through an examination of conscience.

After that, there was the opportunity for everyone to make an individual confession. When I walk in, I ususally say “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It’s been [however long] since my last confession. Since then, I’ve…” When you’re finished, you say, “I am sorry for these and all my sins.” From there, the priest usually takes over. He should ask you to say an Act of Contrition, give you a penance, and absolution.

One of my personal favorite websites is www.frpat.com. Click on reconciliation.