Pope boniface and nessary to salvation to be subject to the pope

[Greg_Mattingly]

I know I’ve seen something on this before, but can some one give me an explanation of Boniface VIII statement “For every human creature, it is altogether necessary to salvation that he be subject to the Roman Pontiff”

 

[gelsbern]

It is in Unam sanctam.

papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

As far as an explanation I will let someone else try to do that. It seems to me that if Quo Primum can be tossed aside, then so can this. But I say that merely tongue in cheek as it seems that there is a cafeteria mentality when it comes to encylicals and apostolic constitutions.

However, I will add that at the time it was written, there was ONLY the catholic church. Protestantism wouldn’t begin for another 200 years or so, and so one must look that if there was only one faith, that this must apply to all those who are part of that faith. i.e.Catholics under the jurisdiction of Rome. However, that then opens up a can of worms again when looked in light of how other papal decrees have been put aside. If what was written by Pope Boniface was the truth, and once a truth always the truth, then how do we then reconcile that with the ignoring of the Syllabus of Errors, or Quo Primum.

 

[DeFide]

gelsbern:

It is in Unam sanctam.

papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

As far as an explanation I will let someone else try to do that. .

This issue is instrinsically part of the issue of salvation outside the Church. Recommended reading:

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

If you reject Christ’s Church, (which includes schism from the Pope), you are rejecting God. Of course this presupposes that you know what you are rejecting. Culpability of this sin is proportionate to one’s level of knowledge. You cannot be held responsible for that which you do not know. The Church never asks the impossible from anybody.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

gelsbern:

It is in Unam sanctam.

papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

As far as an explanation I will let someone else try to do that. It seems to me that if Quo Primum can be tossed aside, then so can this. But I say that merely tongue in cheek as it seems that there is a cafeteria mentality when it comes to encylicals and apostolic constitutions.

However, I will add that at the time it was written, there was ONLY the catholic church. Protestantism wouldn’t begin for another 200 years or so, and so one must look that if there was only one faith, that this must apply to all those who are part of that faith. i.e.Catholics under the jurisdiction of Rome. However, that then opens up a can of worms again when looked in light of how other papal decrees have been put aside. If what was written by Pope Boniface was the truth, and once a truth always the truth, then how do we then reconcile that with the ignoring of the Syllabus of Errors, or Quo Primum.

I’m not certain of the Syllabus, but Quo Primum didn’t have the competence to bind any future pope on a matter of discipline (I assume you’re talking about the formal, final codification of the TLM?). EENS is clearly a matter of faith. Thus, I would consider Pope Boniface’s definition/declaration binding. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t need explication, ie., “here’s what that means and here’s what that doesn’t mean,” but it still would seem to be authoritative.

 

[Georgess]

Does not every Pope implore for God’s Mercy, on all the people , ‘esp.for those most in need …’ and thus hold them in The Church …the ever dormant truth of subsistence , in The Church…

Now , it is true God alone can judge as to whether a soul want to accept His Mercy …meanwhile it would seem it is only wise and prudent that The Pope ask, even insist that the faithful walk the narrow way …and be in The Church .

 

[CollegeKid]

Gregg, I highly suggest you read this to get the context of Unam Sanctam and the Pope’s statement about “every human creature” needing to “be subject to the Roman Pontiff” for salvation:

bringyou.to/apologetics/debate9.htm

 

[batteddy]

Submission to the Pope being part of the normal divine constitution of the Church established by Christ as the necessary instrument of salvation…of course that would be true.

However, one must remember that while the Church is established as the necessary, normative instrument of salvation, possessing the fullness of truth and grace and sacrament…God will not blame those who through inculpable ignorance do not join the Church. It is the ordinary channel, established by God, but extraordinary means are certainly made available. “extraordinary” does not even mean rare or used only in extremely difficult circumstances. It just means it is outside the ideal means which God established as the ideal and official way to go about things (his Church).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

batteddy:

Submission to the Pope being part of the normal divine constitution of the Church established by Christ as the necessary instrument of salvation…of course that would be true.

However, one must remember that while the Church is established as the necessary, normative instrument of salvation, possessing the fullness of truth and grace and sacrament…God will not blame those who through inculpable ignorance do not join the Church. It is the ordinary channel, established by God, but extraordinary means are certainly made available. “extraordinary” does not even mean rare or used only in extremely difficult circumstances. It just means it is outside the ideal means which God established as the ideal and official way to go about things (his Church).

Very well stated!