Properly Catecized Catholics

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LeahInancsi

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I was warned (told) in October that I would be better catecized after attending six to eight months of RCIA classes than most practicing Catholics. I just chuckled and thought “Oh yeah, right.” To my horror (and from some of the comments I’ve read in Catholic Answers Forums) it is true.

Can’t Catholics reach a happy medium? We have threads where people are nit picking every little period and comma in the GIRM and others who have no clue what is a sin against God (specifically the First Commandment) or how to make a confession. I can’t count the number of LITURGY & SACRAMENTAL issues that fall within the confines of this rant.

The Catholic church stands around scratching it’s collective head wondering why it’s youth wanders off to other faiths. If they DO stay, they have no clue of the teachings and traditions of the Church. Are the Protestants wrong in providing “Sunday shcool” education to all of their members?

I couldn’t imagine worshiping in any other faith, but the Catholic church has major problems with it’s own housekeeping and keeping it’s family together. How can the Church tell a man and a woman how to be a family when they have no clue how to keep their (the Chruch) own family together?

I will be confirmed at Easter Vigil and probably make my first confession in early May. I have an idea that my state of mind regarding this subject is going to be an item that I will have to confess.

I feel Satan bearing down on me during this time of Enlightenment and Purification, so I must take a “time out” before I say something the moderators will not appreciate.

Am I alone in my thoughts? What are your thoughts?
 
Well, being a fellow Candidate this Easter, and knowing what I have learned on through my own studies, and through RCIA, and then seeing what other Catholics that I have known all my life, what they don’t know about their own faith, I’d have to say I agree with you.

But, what you have to keep in mind is that the Catholic Church has suffered tremendously at the hands of liberals who hijacked their seminaries and parochial schools over a period of about 40 years or so and watered everything down so that very few were taught anything resembling orthodox Catholicism, and what you see are the results of this.

The Church knows this is a problem, and they are moving, ever so slowly albeit, to remedy this. When you look at this magnificent Church over it’s history, you’ll see that things work themselves out, but usually over a few generations time, (and that is generous). We are used to fast everything, it’s not going to happen with an organization this large.

Don’t be faint of heart! We are making the right move, and there is a lot to be done. Ask the Lord what is going to be your part in all of this! 🙂

God Bless,
Jeanette
 
I think you’d find that, outside of the liturgy and sacraments forum, the people that complain so much about minutiae of orthopraxis (and I’m one of them) complain just as much about ignorance of the Truth in the pews. What is particularly galling about liturgical infractions to me, though, is that the more you learn about Church discipline the more you realize just how faithless (unfaithful to their promises of obedience) your clergy have been. That provokes some righteous indignation.
 
Remember the war is won! We are just fighting the battle.

I think it is getting better. Catholicism is so rich that catechesis can become deeper and deeper. I think that is why some are drawn to “nitpick.” They’ve covered the basics and want to flesh out the deeper meanings and details.

As far as liturgy, I think some souls are just more sensitive to liturgy. For myself, I am not as sensitive as some. I find a beautiful liturgy deeply satisfying and uplifting, but I am not insulted or demoralized by a more banal liturgy. I believe it is a difference in temperament.

We have a lot of work to do on catechesis. I think the Catechism of JPII has made a big difference. And, the seminaries are improving. At least in my area.

Don’t be discouraged. And, remember that God is more interested in your sanctification than your work to sanctify others. Your prayers and works of mercy will not only console Him, but be used to save others!
 
I think once we get more orthodox priests (and the upcoming crop all seem pretty orthodox to me) we will be doing better in the realm of catechesis.

Another issue is that, learning the Faith in upon the heads of the Faithful as well. We are all big boys and girls and while I bemoan the general lack of good catechesis, it really comes down to some personal responsibility. If we are truly into our Faith, and really want to be faithful in our practice of the Faith, I don’t see how a person is unable to spend an hour or two a day in study of the Faith (and of course prayer). There are books a plenty and we have the internet nowaday.

So, the more orthodox priests and religious we have and more people getting serious in their own time would rectify our catechesis problems.
 
If you had the slightest idea how “catechesis” worked in the dark ages of the late sixties and early seventies when I was a young man, you would consider yourself lucky. Fortunately, Sister Mary Thomas and Sister Mary Merced when I had been even younger did a very thorough job as opposed to Brother Mickey Mouse later on. There is an entire generation of Catholics that has never been adequately catechised, who think that genuflection is something you do before you enter a pew even in a protestant church. I am neither a canon lawyer nor a theologian, but I thank God that I have survived all these years with a basic understanding of the faith intact.
 
Andreas Hofer:
I think you’d find that, outside of the liturgy and sacraments forum, the people that complain so much about minutiae of orthopraxis (and I’m one of them) complain just as much about ignorance of the Truth in the pews. What is particularly galling about liturgical infractions to me, though, is that the more you learn about Church discipline the more you realize just how faithless (unfaithful to their promises of obedience) your clergy have been. That provokes some righteous indignation.
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Yes, I agree. There have been several threads about how priests have unique Mass routines. Some variations may be very minor, while others are just wrong and unfair to the parishioners who depend on them.

At this point, I feel I have a good understanding of the Liturgy of the Word. As soon as I have am able to receive the Eucharist, I’d like to attend different Catholic churches in the area see how other priests are performing Mass.

As for the advice and leadership priests provide to their parishoners, the manner in which they interpret the Teachings of the Church, and live their personal lives, I pray that my priests are on the straight and narrow with Rome. Unfortunately, too many others are not.
 
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ComradeAndrei:
I think once we get more orthodox priests (and the upcoming crop all seem pretty orthodox to me) we will be doing better in the realm of catechesis.

Another issue is that, learning the Faith in upon the heads of the Faithful as well. We are all big boys and girls and while I bemoan the general lack of good catechesis, it really comes down to some personal responsibility. If we are truly into our Faith, and really want to be faithful in our practice of the Faith, I don’t see how a person is unable to spend an hour or two a day in study of the Faith (and of course prayer). There are books a plenty and we have the internet nowaday.

So, the more orthodox priests and religious we have and more people getting serious in their own time would rectify our catechesis problems.
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I think this is the root of my frustration with the amount of ignorance among the laitiy that I read. Obviously, they have access to the Internet because they are posting to this website. The Internet is an excellent tool for Catholic religious education and more should take advantage of it. This forum is also educational, but can’t scratch the surface.

Presently, I’m overwhelmed by the amount of Catholic educational material that I have at my finger tips. There aren’t enough hours in the day to look at and read every I would like. I’m not talking about Papal Enclyclicals, either. I have bought about 50 books in the past six months that are on my To Do list.

It’s not difficult.
 
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LeahInancsi:
I think this is the root of my frustration with the amount of ignorance among the laitiy that I read. Obviously, they have access to the Internet because they are posting to this website. The Internet is an excellent tool for Catholic religious education and more should take advantage of it. This forum is also educational, but can’t scratch the surface.

Presently, I’m overwhelmed by the amount of Catholic educational material that I have at my finger tips. There aren’t enough hours in the day to look at and read every I would like. I’m not talking about Papal Enclyclicals, either. I have bought about 50 books in the past six months that are on my To Do list.

It’s not difficult.
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There has to be a fire or at least a spark in a person’s soul to inspire them to want to know their faith more intimately. The question is, how do you create an atmosphere where that fire or spark is ignited? Is it the passionate faith of the parish priest? Is it the fire of other parishioners that spreads from one to another? Is it something that starts at the top with the Pope and works it’s way down, or at the bottom and works it’s way up? Or both, with all those in middle being the last to feel the heat?

You’re right, there can be all the materials in the world available at a person’s fingertips, but if they don’t know it’s there, or don’t even think it’s relevant to their everyday life, how do you get them motivated to dig in?

I think it’s going to be a combination of leadership catching the fire from the Pope, the new groundswell coming from the Catholic youth who were set on fire by JP II, converts and reverts coming in with faith that is alive and excited, and it will spread out from there to invigorate those who have any interest at all in their faith but didn’t know there was more than showing up on Sunday.
 
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jbuck919:
If you had the slightest idea how “catechesis” worked in the dark ages of the late sixties and early seventies when I was a young man, you would consider yourself lucky. Fortunately, Sister Mary Thomas and Sister Mary Merced when I had been even younger did a very thorough job as opposed to Brother Mickey Mouse later on. There is an entire generation of Catholics that has never been adequately catechised, who think that genuflection is something you do before you enter a pew even in a protestant church. I am neither a canon lawyer nor a theologian, but I thank God that I have survived all these years with a basic understanding of the faith intact.
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You are definitely one of the lucky ones and I thank God for that.

I might have a vague idea. My sponsor who is a 65 year old craddle Catholic has mentioned several times that the children were TOLD what to do PERIOD. No why, don’t even ask. I’ve heard the Baltimore Catechism mentioned.

As I mentioned in a response above, the people that irritate me the most with regard to ignorance have access to the Internet and enough time to be chatting on this site.

Perhaps, it is the mindset from the dark ages that does not promote a proactive attitude. I’ll have to admit that my profession requires that I search for answers to my questions on my own. This is a habit that has to be developed. Many people haven’t had the opportunity or motivation to do this, I say as I back away from my soap box.

The availability of information is better than ever before. We just need to take advantage of it. In turn, the quality of our religious lives will benefit infinitely.
 
Jeanette L:
There has to be a fire or at least a spark in a person’s soul to inspire them to want to know their faith more intimately. The question is, how do you create an atmosphere where that fire or spark is ignited? Is it the passionate faith of the parish priest? Is it the fire of other parishioners that spreads from one to another? Is it something that starts at the top with the Pope and works it’s way down, or at the bottom and works it’s way up? Or both, with all those in middle being the last to feel the heat?

You’re right, there can be all the materials in the world available at a person’s fingertips, but if they don’t know it’s there, or don’t even think it’s relevant to their everyday life, how do you get them motivated to dig in?

I think it’s going to be a combination of leadership catching the fire from the Pope, the new groundswell coming from the Catholic youth who were set on fire by JP II, converts and reverts coming in with faith that is alive and excited, and it will spread out from there to invigorate those who have any interest at all in their faith but didn’t know there was more than showing up on Sunday.
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Hi Jeanette.

Those of us who are entering the Church now are very lucky. It’s an exciting time. As you said, how do we get the word out to Catholics that are not aware of all of the available resources that were not available in the past.

My sponsor and her 34 year old son (also a craddle Catholic) who is sponsoring his fiance have been energized by attending RCIA classes. Perhaps, it should be encouraged that Catholics attend every 5 to 10 years just for an update.

I’m so proud of how the Catholics make efficient use of their church buildings by having multiple Masses for required Sunday obligation and daily Masses. Some Protestant religions judge the quality of a church by the square footage of its buildings that sit empty for as many as five days a week. I’d much rather give my money to needy charitable organizations than to the church to building more empty buildings.

God bless and best wishes in the weeks to come.
 
LeahInancsi: If I read your post correctly you will be confirmed at Easter, having already been baptised formerly as a Christian. (If I have assumed incorrectly and you will also be Baptised then, please just ignor this question) Why is your first confession being delayed until after confirmation and your first communion?

Cathechism of the Catholic Church:
1310 To receive Confirmation one must be in a state of grace. One should receive the sacrament of Penance in order to be cleansed for the gift of the Holy Spirit. More intense prayer should prepare one to receive the strength and graces of the Holy Spirit with docility and readiness to act.128
 
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bellesjoy:
LeahInancsi: If I read your post correctly you will be confirmed at Easter, having already been baptised formerly as a Christian. (If I have assumed incorrectly and you will also be Baptised then, please just ignor this question) Why is your first confession being delayed until after confirmation and your first communion?

Cathechism of the Catholic Church:
1310 To receive Confirmation one must be in a state of grace. One should receive the sacrament of Penance in order to be cleansed for the gift of the Holy Spirit. More intense prayer should prepare one to receive the strength and graces of the Holy Spirit with docility and readiness to act.128
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I will, also, be baptized at Easter Vigil. I probably should have mentioned baptism rather than confirmation.

I don’t know which is worse, revealing that I’ve waited so long to be baptised or have to go to confession prior to Easter Vigil and confess years and years of misdeeds.

In the end, it is all good and I can’t wait to receive the Eucharist every chance I get. 😃 These late Easters are killers. 😦
 
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LeahInancsi:
I will, also, be baptized at Easter Vigil. I probably should have mentioned baptism rather than confirmation.

I don’t know which is worse, revealing that I’ve waited so long to be baptised or have to go to confession prior to Easter Vigil and confess years and years of misdeeds.

In the end, it is all good and I can’t wait to receive the Eucharist every chance I get. 😃 These late Easters are killers. 😦
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If you have not been baptized yet, there is no reason to receive reconciliation prior to your baptism… Baptism not only removes original sin, it removes ALL sin whatsoever. I’m not even sure that reconciliation would be offered to a non-baptized person, nor should it be. I have never heard of anyone confessing prior to being baptized.

Are you sure that your RCIA team isn’t just exposing you to the reconciliation ceremony and that you are to only ask for a blessing?
 
Well, I know this one fallen away Catholic who happens to be a Counselor of mine. He was raised a Roman Catholic, was batized, confirmed, went through Catholic school the whole nine yards. This was in the pre-Vatican II days. But as it often happens he left the Church as soon as he was out from under the influence of his parents.

He either slept or day-dreamed through most of catechism class, and as such he never knew which sacrament did what for him. And Mass was always as boring as you-know-what for him. Needless to say his Catholicism to him was nothing more than an external physical ritual, and never had the vaguest idea what all about.

Now he just has a loose belief in a supreme being, no sense or belief in sin or hell, and he is open to reincarnation. Pretty sad I have to admit, and I wonder how many more the Church has lost like him?

Certainly someone to pray for…:gopray2:
 
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palmas85:
If you have not been baptized yet, there is no reason to receive reconciliation prior to your baptism… Baptism not only removes original sin, it removes ALL sin whatsoever. I’m not even sure that reconciliation would be offered to a non-baptized person, nor should it be. I have never heard of anyone confessing prior to being baptized.

Are you sure that your RCIA team isn’t just exposing you to the reconciliation ceremony and that you are to only ask for a blessing?
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I must have misspoke. I will not go to confession prior to my baptism. It might be good for me, but I can’t or don’t have to go to confession before Easter Vigil.

Thanks
 
Palmas85: to clarify; I asked if Leahinancsi was being confirmed only, because that was what the original post stated. This was clarified to be both baptism and confirmation, which means confession is not needed in this case.

If a person is baptised as a Christian prior to coming to the Catholic Church for RCIA seeking confirmation and eucharist, then confession would be in order. Please go back and read the posts and CCC 1310 cited.

congratulations to you, Leahinancsi!
 
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Catholic29:
Well, I know this one fallen away Catholic who happens to be a Counselor of mine. He was raised a Roman Catholic, was batized, confirmed, went through Catholic school the whole nine yards. This was in the pre-Vatican II days. But as it often happens he left the Church as soon as he was out from under the influence of his parents.

He either slept or day-dreamed through most of catechism class, and as such he never knew which sacrament did what for him. And Mass was always as boring as you-know-what for him. Needless to say his Catholicism to him was nothing more than an external physical ritual, and never had the vaguest idea what all about.

Now he just has a loose belief in a supreme being, no sense or belief in sin or hell, and he is open to reincarnation. Pretty sad I have to admit, and I wonder how many more the Church has lost like him?

Certainly someone to pray for…:gopray2:
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I think focusing religious education during childhood and the teen years is a big part of the problem. Religion is not something that most kids find interesting. Minds wander and the information goes in one ear and out the other.

I have a cousin who left the church because he doesn’t have a full understanding of the beauties of this religion. He is a craddle Catholic with a parochial education. I’d like to remind him of what he is missing, but I have a shortage of relatives and don’t want to push him away.

I pray for him. :gopray:
 
I quote my mom on this one:
“Catholics don’t read the Bible.”
And she’s Catholic…Something’s got to give!
 
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havemercy:
I quote my mom on this one:
“Catholics don’t read the Bible.”
And she’s Catholic…Something’s got to give!
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For the most part it’s true in a way, in my opinion. I’m going out on a limb and may fall off. That’s why I suggested that the Catholics might need to consider the concept of Sunday school. It’s a mistake I plan not to make.

I have my great grandparent’s Catholic Bible which is 130 years old. It hasn’t been used in the past 50 or more years, but it is falling apart from use when my grandmother was a child. I’m hoping to have it repaired and use it as my Family Bible.

In RCIA, it is encouraged and, probably, throughout the Catholic church, but I don’t know that it gets done. Everybody in my RCIA class has a copy of the New American Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Our instructor backs up everything he says with a reference to the Bible or explains how it is derived from the Bible via Sacred Tradition.

At Sunday Mass, there are three scripture readings read, one from the Old Testament and two from the New Testament. The second reading from the New Testament, the “Gospel” relates to the Old Testament reading and a good priest should develop his Homily around the Gospel’s theme or story. Currently, the Gospel readings come from the Gospel of Mark. It goes in three year cycles.

Unfortunately, that may be the only exposure some Catholics get to the Bible. Since I started RCIA, I’ve bought four Bibles and plan to get the Ignatius Bible, soon, and have several books of interpretations of the Bible.

I don’t mean to brag, but converts to the Catholic church are very much into the Bible. If you watch EWTN, check out the background of the lay people who host programs, for example, Scott Hahn. Almost always, they’re converts. We just need to get many others up to speed and a way from the “dark ages” when the focus was on the Catechism.

My parish has a Bible study class and when it starts again in the early Fall, you’ll know where to find me on Wednesday evenings.
 
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