Putting sola Fide out of my head

[Upgrade25]

The scripture verses used to support Sola Fide In article below.

calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/does-the-bible-teach-sola-fide/

The article, and Father, connect agape and faith, but even then, many Protestants’ hearts overflow with joy and agape for Jesus at the altar call. As well, how do we determine that faith and love are the only things. What about works? I’m not even sure about justification anymore. And Protestants could claim that you only have faith if you have agape, maintaining sola Fide.

 

[Billy_Buescher]

Hello,

I would look at how Jesus and His Father are. Jesus Believed and Loves His Father, that being said.

Do you think that if Jesus would have decide that believing and loving His Father was enough and decided that to die was a work and He did not need to do that.

Then, would He have been disobedient to the Father, just like Adam?

Would He be where He is now, King of Kings, sitting at the Fathers right hand, if he would have not died?

We are to imitate Christ, and do the will of the Father.

 

[Della]

The scripture verses used to support Sola Fide In article below.

calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/does-the-bible-teach-sola-fide/

The article, and Father, connect agape and faith, but even then, many Protestants’ hearts overflow with joy and agape for Jesus at the altar call. As well, how do we determine that faith and love are the only things. What about works? I’m not even sure about justification anymore. And Protestants could claim that you only have faith if you have agape, maintaining sola Fide.

Having an uplift in one’s faith is not the same thing as helping someone else, is it? Good works are about tending to the body of Christ by showing them Christ’s love. How can we love God if we do not love our brother–by helping him in all his needs, spiritual and temporal? It’s not just about Jesus and me–it’s about being a part of the whole body of Christ. If you hit your thumb with a hammer your whole body suffers. If a brother is suffering we should all suffer with him and aid him in his sufferings, correct him in love if he is straying, comfort him in his loneliness. These too are acts of faith, of mercy, of love. It’s all interconnected. Faith and works are both gifts of God’s grace, for if we have faith in Christ we will want to love as he loved and sacrifice ourselves for others as he did, yes?

 

[po18guy]

Faith, hope and love are the three theological virtues (1 Cor 13:13), but love is greater than faith or hope. In John 21:15-17, Jesus did not ask Peter if he had faith. He asked him if he loved Him. In John 13:35, men will know you are Christian not by your faith, not by your hope, but by your love. Non-Catholics are obsessed with justification. There is no such confusion in the Catholic Church. We have the Sacraments which Christ instituted so as to erase all doubt.

Sola fide is man-made. Tracing it back through history, it stops dead at the reformation. It has man’s name on it, and not the Church’s or God’s.

 

[MT1926]

The scripture verses used to support Sola Fide In article below.

calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/does-the-bible-teach-sola-fide/

The article, and Father, connect agape and faith, but even then, many Protestants’ hearts overflow with joy and agape for Jesus at the altar call. As well, how do we determine that faith and love are the only things. What about works? I’m not even sure about justification anymore. And Protestants could claim that you only have faith if you have agape, maintaining sola Fide.

Seeing that you are 14 I think the best advice I could give you is to think about your relationship with Jesus and the Father as you would your relationship with your own family.

I have noticed that most of the times people tend to get lost in the details and arguments start which pulls us away from the logical conclusion.

From the article you linked lets take this one statement to concentrate on and set aside the details of the rest of the article:

“For faith, unless hope and charity be added to it, neither unites man perfectly with Christ nor makes him a living member of His body. "

Now I will take this statement and logically apply it to my own life (I ask you do the same).

When I was your age I had parents that clothed me, sheltered me and fed me. If I spent my days laying around watching TV and playing Xbox, but still coming to family meals and thanking them for the food and joy in my life, we could say that I was united to my parents. However, wouldn’t I be more perfectly united to my parents if I used some of my free time to clean up my room or help set the table for diner or cut the grass? If I laid around and didn’t do the extra work I am sure I wouldn’t have been booted from the house but I can guarantee you participating with your Father brings you much closer to him than just believing that he will take care of you.

All in all just try to use some logic and don’t try to over think everything. Being a Father myself it is easy for me to put myself in the Fathers shoes. I know my children have faith in me. But as a father of five I would much rather my kids show me they love me by their actions, not just cutting the grass but caring for others as well, than have them show me they love me by telling everyone they meet that they have the worlds greatest dad. If I see my kids going out of their way for others than I know I raised them right.

I think our heavenly Father is the same, actions speak louder than words.

Matthew 7:21Revised
Concerning Self-Deception
21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

[fisherman_carl]

My understanding is that the condemnation of faith alone was that of just an intellectual assent. But, a heartfelt faith is a justifying faith. And many Protestants would agree with that.

 

[Della]

My understanding is that the condemnation of faith alone was that of just an intellectual assent. But, a heartfelt faith is a justifying faith. And many Protestants would agree with that.

And heartfelt faith is one that is practiced, isn’t it? For many Evangelicals it’s more a matter of semantics than actual belief. Most would say that we need to live the life of Christ not merely give lip service to our faith. So, in essence, they are saying pretty much what the Church teaches without having the theological understanding that goes with it.

 

[fisherman_carl]

And heartfelt faith is one that is practiced, isn’t it? For many Evangelicals it’s more a matter of semantics than actual belief. Most would say that we need to live the life of Christ not merely give lip service to our faith. So, in essence, they are saying pretty much what the Church teaches without having the theological understanding that goes with it.

Yes. James 2 does a good job of illustrating that.

Here is a quote from a Protestant website called faithalone.org which is kind of interesting to me.

There will be people in hell who were very orthodox in many points of theology. A person can believe in monotheism, trinitarianism, premillennialism, the deity of Christ, the inerrancy of Scripture, and many other points and yet still be trusting at least in part in their own works to get them to heaven.
faithalone.org/magazine/y1992/92nov3.html

What’s interesting to me about this is his emphasis on trust. Since, I think this shows that his concept of saving faith is one that includes trust. It isn’t merely intellectual assent to a bunch of dogmas as he seems to indicate in the first 2 sentences. This is something I think both Catholics and Protestants can agree on. It is really a hope, that is a hope that not just Christ died on the Cross for our justification, but that it is more personal, but that he died for me, and a trust that he is going to save me and bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. So it is not just a general belief in doctrine, but a real trust in the person of Christ to save me personally. Jesus didn’t die to merely give us a bunch of doctrines to memorize and believe in.

Also, he talks about putting trust in one’s works, even in part, somehow disincludes a person from heaven. But, I think we can distinguish between putting trust in works and the requirement for works that Jesus gives us. Because Jesus does say in a number of places that we must bear fruit. But, he doesn’t say that we must put our trust in that fruit to save us. No, it is Christ who saves us. We don’t trust in our fruit, but in Christ. Yet, that doesn’t negate the necessity for the fruit. And, Jesus says that if we remain in him, in the vine, we will bear fruit. So, really, it’s all about being connected to Jesus and abiding in him. And, Putting our trust in him to save us and that we will bear fruit that pleases him. We are not trying to buy God off by doing works. This, I think is the false concept that the faithalone.org author has in his mind. But, that is false image of Catholicism. We don’t trust in our works. We trust in Christ. And, works are a fruit of that relationship with Christ. Nonetheless, they are something that is part of the salvation process that is by grace.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Protestants almost invariably confuse prior works with ongoing works.

The point about prior works is that all Catholics and all Protestants are agreed that we are saved by faith in Christ’s saving (except those who are in error!). Prior works are in the Bible encapsulated in the Old Testament and Pharisee concept of Law. A more contemporary expression is that some stuffy persons insist that God should approve them without reckoning on the things that are entailed. Abraham and so on are saved because they trusted there would be One to save them, even though they tried to keep the Law.

Ongoing works are as described in all the preceding posts. Sadly, increasing numbers of Protestants don’t see discipling as a work of mercy towards fellow Christians, hence may risk missing out on a crown if their fellow’s faith remains shallow. (Indeed, in practice the same is the case of most Catholics since the disappearance of the catechumenate.)

I think there are points in Scriptures where the distinction between forgiveness of sins and the Kingdom of Heaven are deliberately blurred to keep us thinking seriously.

There isn’t a “tariff” of works of mercy in that while a few small looking things may be seen as a great work by God from one person, He is calling for seemingly more and bigger efforts from someone else to equate to equivalent merit. The true vision of our hearts is as always in His eyes!

Overall, I don’t get the impression there is enough catechesis on the spiritual works of mercy.

 

[MT1926]

Also, he talks about putting trust in one’s works, even in part, somehow disincludes a person from heaven. But, I think we can distinguish between putting trust in works and the requirement for works that Jesus gives us. Because Jesus does say in a number of places that we must bear fruit. But, he doesn’t say that we must put our trust in that fruit to save us. No, it is Christ who saves us. We don’t trust in our fruit, but in Christ. Yet, that doesn’t negate the necessity for the fruit. And, Jesus says that if we remain in him, in the vine, we will bear fruit. So, really, it’s all about being connected to Jesus and abiding in him. And, Putting our trust in him to save us and that we will bear fruit that pleases him. We are not trying to buy God off by doing works. This, I think is the false concept that the faithalone.org author has in his mind. But, that is false image of Catholicism. We don’t trust in our works. We trust in Christ. And, works are a fruit of that relationship with Christ. Nonetheless, they are something that is part of the salvation process that is by grace.

I was going over works in my head on my drive to the office this morning. Trying to figure out a good and logical way to put it. I open up my email link to your post and boom there it is. Nicely said.

I especially liked this part.
No, it is Christ who saves us. We don’t trust in our fruit, but in Christ. Yet, that doesn’t negate the necessity for the fruit.

I didn’t see a copyright symbol so I plan to use that some day.