Questions regards to confession

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AndyF

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1457 According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.”
Does a year’s accumulation of good still amount to nothing prior to confessing, even though the window of allowance has been broadened?.
1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted
We have heard of cases where a member of the congregation has sinned a grevious sin, and the congregation is aware of this. It then takes action by barring him of certain Church privledges. Is this in principle excommunication?

If excommunication impedes the reception of sacraments, then the Sacrament of Conversion is also barred, or should 1463 read “which impedes the reception of some sacraments”?
AndyF
 
Does a year’s accumulation of good still amount to nothing prior to confessing, even though the window of allowance has been broadened?.

We have heard of cases where a member of the congregation has sinned a grevious sin, and the congregation is aware of this. It then takes action by barring him of certain Church privledges. Is this in principle excommunication?

If excommunication impedes the reception of sacraments, then the sacrament of Conversion is also barred, or should 1463 read “which impedes the reception of some sacraments”?

AndyF
You cannot gain any merits if you are not in a state of Sanctifying Grace.

The Congregation cannot bar someone for certain church privleges.

I don’t understand your term “sacrament of Conversion”? Excommunication imperes the reception of all Sacraments. The Excommunication would need to be lifted before even the Sacrament of Reconciliation could be received.
 
We have heard of cases where a member of the congregation has sinned a grevious sin, and the congregation is aware of this. It then takes action by barring him of certain Church privledges. Is this in principle excommunication?
Who, pray tell, is *we *and where did “we” hear this? I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
You cannot gain any merits if you are not in a state of Sanctifying Grace.
Yes, I know, I was thinking in light of this new allowance of time.
I don’t understand your term “sacrament of Conversion”? Excommunication imperes the reception of all Sacraments. The Excommunication would need to be lifted before even the Sacrament of Reconciliation could be received.
Code:
Rich, in my endeavor to find a clarification for you, I came upon my own answer as follows (NewAdvent.org/Excomm.):
Apart from the rare cases in which excommunication is imposed for a fixed period and then ceases of itself, it is always removed by absolution. It is to be noted at once that,** though the same word is used to designate the sacramental sentence by which sins are remitted and that by which excommunication is removed, there is a vast difference between the two acts.The absolution which revokes excommunication is purely jurisdictional and has nothing sacramental about it. It reinstates the repentant sinner in the Church; restores the rights of which he had been deprived, beginning with participation in the sacraments; and for this very reason, it should precede sacramental absolution,** which it thenceforth renders possible and efficacious.
The Congregation cannot bar someone for certain church privleges.
The case I had in mind was one where a woman was removed from a choir by a priest because she was found to be living in common law relationship with a man. This was presented as a true case by a member in a forum a while ago. If I recall, I think the consensus was that it a was a just decision.
Code:
Hence the question, if this restriction isn't excommunication even in it's milder form, what is the name of this procedure?
Re: Conversion.
Code:
58. The Sacrament of Conversion and Reconciliation. (NA)
An essential and permanent part of the Christian family’s sanctifying role consists in accepting the call to conversion that the Gospel addresses to all Christians, who do not always remain faithful to the “newness” of the baptism that constitutes them “saints.” The Christian family too is sometimes unfaithful to the law of baptismal grace and holiness proclaimed anew in the Sacrament of Marriage.

Repentance and mutual pardon within the bosom of the Christian family, so much a part of daily life, receive their specific sacramental expression in Christian penance. In the encyclical Humanae Vitae, Paul VI wrote to married couples: “And if sin should still keep its hold over them, let them not be discouraged, but rather have recourse with humble perseverance to the mercy of God, which is abundantly poured forth in the Sacrament of Penance” [146].

My mention here questions that if the Sacrament of Absolution was not available to him, how was he to restore his state and regain lost grace. But that is cleared up.

Thanks.

AndyF
 
Yes, I know, I was thinking in light of this new allowance of time.
what new allowance of time? The obligation to confess grave sins once a year has always been there so I don’t know what is new about it.
 
The case I had in mind was one where a woman was removed from a choir by a priest because she was found to be living in common law relationship with a man.
this is not excommunication in any form, mild or spicy. this is applying the law that someone who is living in accord with Catholic moral teaching cannot have a role in the liturgy. Excommunication means being barred from the sacraments. Singing in the choir is not a sacrament, but it is a role in service of the liturgy, so if the priest is aware of the situation she should not sing in the choir, be a lector etc. Neither should she be a catechist, or a Confirmation sponsor or a godparent.

There are several threads here discussion the various offenses that result in excommunication. Some of these penalties can be lifted by the priest in confession, after of course the reason for the excommunication has been remedied. Other very grave offenses can only be lifted by the bishop, or in rare cases by the Pope. Confessing sins to one’s spouse doesn’t cut it.
 
someone who is living in accord with Catholic moral teaching cannot have a role in the liturgy.
I presume you mean someone who ISN’T living in accord with Catholic moral teaching 😉
There are several threads here discussion the various offenses that result in excommunication. Some of these penalties can be lifted by the priest in confession, after of course the reason for the excommunication has been remedied. Other very grave offenses can only be lifted by the bishop, or in rare cases by the Pope. Confessing sins to one’s spouse doesn’t cut it.
In America and most Western countries, as I understand it, the vast majority of excommunicable offences (for example, abortion)can have the excommunication lifted and absolution given by any priest.

Of course the penitent should always check with their local priest, and will always be informed if absolution by the Bishop or Holy See is required. My understanding of such cases is that this often simply involves the Bishop or Pope delegating the appropriate authority to the person’s regular confessor, so it doesn’t sound like an overly complicated process.

And I second what has been said about being removed from certain ministries or denied certain privileges, such as being a godparent or Confirmation sponsor, excommunication is a different and much rarer thing altogether.
 
I presume you mean someone who ISN’T living in accord with Catholic moral teaching 😉

In America and most Western countries, as I understand it, the vast majority of excommunicable offences (for example, abortion)can have the excommunication lifted and absolution given by any priest.

Of course the penitent should always check with their local priest, and will always be informed if absolution by the Bishop or Holy See is required. My understanding of such cases is that this often simply involves the Bishop or Pope delegating the appropriate authority to the person’s regular confessor, so it doesn’t sound like an overly complicated process.

And I second what has been said about being removed from certain ministries or denied certain privileges, such as being a godparent or Confirmation sponsor, excommunication is a different and much rarer thing altogether.
Usually a person is not denied being a Godparent or Sponsor. They simply do not qualify according to Canon Law.
 
AndyF,

You seem to be unclear on exactly what the sacraments are. You have referred to a sacrament of conversion and also a sacrament of absolution. These are no sacraments called conversion or absolution.

There are 7 sacraments, and they are:
  1. Baptism
  2. Confession (also called Penance, or called Reconciliation)
  3. Holy Communion
  4. Confirmation
  5. Annointing of the Sick
  6. Holy Orders
  7. Marriage
I hope this clarifies things for you.
 
AndyF,

You seem to be unclear on exactly what the sacraments are. You have referred to a sacrament of conversion and also a sacrament of absolution. These are no sacraments called conversion or absolution.

There are 7 sacraments, and they are:
  1. Baptism
  2. Confession (also called Penance, or called Reconciliation)
  3. Holy Communion
  4. Confirmation
  5. Annointing of the Sick
  6. Holy Orders
  7. Marriage
I hope this clarifies things for you.
The wording is confusing, but the Sacrament of Reconciliation is a “sacrament of conversion” it calls one to a conversion of heart, a turning away from sin. Some also speak of a (small “s”) “sacrament of absolution” meaning the sign of Christ’s forgiveness.

Using wording in this manner however is so confusing to many.
 
AndyF,

You seem to be unclear on exactly what the sacraments are. You have referred to a sacrament of conversion and also a sacrament of absolution. These are no sacraments called conversion or absolution.

There are 7 sacraments, and they are:
  1. Baptism
  2. Confession (also called Penance, or called Reconciliation)
  3. Holy Communion
  4. Confirmation
  5. Annointing of the Sick
  6. Holy Orders
  7. Marriage
I hope this clarifies things for you.
**ARTICLE 4
THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION

**
[1422](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1422.htm’)😉 "Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion."4

I. WHAT IS THIS SACRAMENT CALLED?
[1423](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1423.htm’)😉
It is called the Sacrament of Conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus’ call to conversion, the first step in returning to the Father5 from whom one has strayed by sin.
It is called the Sacrament of Penance, since it consecrates the Christian sinner’s personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction.

[1424](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1424.htm’)😉 It is called the Sacrament of Confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a “confession” - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.
It is called the Sacrament of Forgiveness, since by the priest’s sacramental absolution God grants the penitent "pardon and peace."6
Code:
   It is called the *Sacrament of Reconciliation*, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: "Be reconciled to God."7 He who lives by God's merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord's call: "Go; first be reconciled to your brother."8
AndyF
 
what new allowance of time? The obligation to confess grave sins once a year has always been there so I don’t know what is new about it.
That is correct. I was unaware of the time element, but that is good news all the same, and frankly I don’t recall ever being taught that in Catechism. Searching further I found:

(Summa) Whether one is bound to confess at once?

newadvent.org/summa/500605.htm
 
That is correct. I was unaware of the time element, but that is good news all the same, and frankly I don’t recall ever being taught that in Catechism. Searching further I found:

(Summa) Whether one is bound to confess at once?

newadvent.org/summa/500605.htm
The time frame of one year applies only if your are in a state of grave/serious sin. There is also a requirement to receive Holy Communion once a year, especially in the Easter season. Concerning confession, many took this that they need to go to confession only once a year after Vat II (blame everything on Vat II). That is not the case. If we have a grave or serious or mortal sin, we must go to confession before we receive Holy Communion.
 
what new allowance of time? The obligation to confess grave sins once a year has always been there so I don’t know what is new about it.
With further study, I have found the problem.

Summa in Supplementum Tertia Partis, (Penance/Parts(confession)/re: Necessity)

explains that the year allowance is given only for one of the two possible confessional positions. It applies to Accidental Confession, not Absolute Confession.

If one knows that he absolutely must receive the Eucharist because of no fault of his own, the sinner can partake of it, and has a year to confess his mortal sin.

In absolute confession, a person who knowingly has committed a mortal sin must confess as soon as possible.

AndyF
 
With further study, I have found the problem.

Summa in Supplementum Tertia Partis, (Penance/Parts(confession)/re: Necessity)

explains that the year allowance is given only for one of the two possible confessional positions. It applies to Accidental Confession, not Absolute Confession.

If one knows that he absolutely must receive the Eucharist because of no fault of his own, the sinner can partake of it, and has a year to confess his mortal sin.

In absolute confession, a person who knowingly has committed a mortal sin must confess as soon as possible.

AndyF
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AndyF:
If one knows that he absolutely must receive the Eucharist because of no fault of his own, the sinner can partake of it, and has a year to confess his mortal sin
When does one absolutely must receive Holy Communion? Death bed? CCC 1415: Anyone who desires to receive Christ in the Eucharist communion must be in a state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

Also CCC 1457 partial quote: Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.

I cannot validate your post in the CCC or Canon Law. God Bless
 
When does one absolutely must receive Holy Communion? Death bed? CCC 1415: Anyone who desires to receive Christ in the Eucharist communion must be in a state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

Also CCC 1457 partial quote: Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.

I cannot validate your post in the CCC or Canon Law. God Bless
Canon 920 P1 Once admitted to the blessed Eucharist, each of the faithful is obliged to receive holy communion at least once a year.

Canon 920 P2 This precept must be fulfilled during the paschal time, unless for a good reason it is fulfilled at another time during the year.

Canon 989 All faithful who have reached the age of discretion are bound faithfully to confess their grave sins at least once a year.
 
ARTICLE 4
THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION

1422
"Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion."4

I. WHAT IS THIS SACRAMENT CALLED?
1423
It is called the Sacrament of Conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus’ call to conversion, the first step in returning to the Father5 from whom one has strayed by sin.
It is called the Sacrament of Penance, since it consecrates the Christian sinner’s personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction.

1424 It is called the Sacrament of Confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a “confession” - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.
It is called the Sacrament of Forgiveness, since by the priest’s sacramental absolution God grants the penitent "pardon and peace."6

It is called the Sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: "Be reconciled to God."7 He who lives by God’s merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord’s call: "Go; first be reconciled to your brother."8

AndyF
Look carefully at the actual Catechism It does not say "Sacrament of Conversion, Sacrament of Penance, Sacrament of Confession, Sacrament of Forgiveness, Sacrament of Reconciliation"

It actually says:

"sacrament of conversion, sacrament of penance, sacrament of confession, sacrament of forgiveness, sacrament of reconciliation"
 
Canon 920 P1 Once admitted to the blessed Eucharist, each of the faithful is obliged to receive holy communion at least once a year.

Canon 920 P2 This precept must be fulfilled during the paschal time, unless for a good reason it is fulfilled at another time during the year.

Canon 989 All faithful who have reached the age of discretion are bound faithfully to confess their grave sins at least once a year.
I agree with all you said. What i was saying was concerning your post:
40.png
AndyF:
If one knows that he absolutely must receive the Eucharist because of no fault of his own, the sinner can partake of it, and has a year to confess his mortal sin

Canon confirms you must be in grave sin to confess your sins once a year. Yes we are to receive Holy Communion once a year but a confession is not necessary to fulfill this requirement if you are not in grave sin. My Question: Where does it state: the sinner can partake of it, and **has a year to confess his mortal sin? ** The two do not depend on each other: Yearly commitment to receive Holly Communion and Confession. If you wait a year to receive, and you are in grave sin, you sure can go to confession before the reception.
 
CRW:
Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.
Thomas sets up a case in point for the latter part of your preceding paragraph, and this is where you will find the exception for the one year allowance.

Italics Summa

I answer that, As the purpose of confessing is united to contrition, a man is bound to have this purpose when he is bound to have contrition, viz. when he calls his sins to mind, and chiefly when he is in danger of death, or when he is so circumstanced that unless his sin be forgiven, he must fall into another sin: for instance, if a priest be bound to say Mass, and a confessor is at hand, he is bound to confess or, if there be no confessor, he is bound at least to contrition and to have the purpose of confessing.

The first accidental case is where it applies. The implication is that it applies for pressing cases where he cannot do without committing a mortal sin, and the case here is given for the reception of the Eucharist. This seems reasonable, has it would seem he deserves a token dispensation due to the individual’s precarious position.

*But to actual confession a man is bound in two ways.
**
First, accidentally, viz. when he is bound to do something which he cannot do without committing a mortal sin, unless he go to confession first: for then he is bound to confess; for instance, if he has to receive the Eucharist, to which no one can approach, after committing a mortal sin, without confessing first, if a priest be at hand, and there be no urgent necessity. Hence it is that the Church obliges all to confess once a year; because she commands all to receive Holy Communion once a year, viz. at Easter, wherefore all must go to confession before that time.

*The next paragraph leaves the exceptional cases behind and deals primarily with instilling urgency of confession.

*Secondly, a man is bound absolutely to go to confession; and here the same reason applies to delay of confession as to delay of Baptism, because both are necessary sacraments. Now a man is not bound to receive Baptism as soon as he makes up his mind to be baptized; and so he would not sin mortally, if he were not baptized at once: nor is there any fixed time beyond which, if he defer Baptism, he would incur a mortal sin. Nevertheless the delay of Baptism may amount to a mortal sin, or it may not, and this depends on the cause of the delay, since, as the Philosopher says (Phys. viii, text. 15), the will does not defer doing what it wills to do, except for a reasonable cause. Wherefore if the cause of the delay of Baptism has a mortal sin connected with it, e.g. if a man put off being baptized through contempt, or some like motive, the delay will be a mortal sin, but otherwise not: and the same seems to apply to confession which is not more necessary than Baptism. Moreover, since man is bound to fulfill in this life those things that are necessary for salvation, therefore, if he be in danger of death, he is bound, even absolutely, then and there to make his confession or to receive Baptism. For this reason too, James proclaimed at the same time the commandment about making confession and that about receiving Extreme Unction (James 5:14,16). Therefore the opinion seems probable of those who say that a man is not bound to confess at once, though it is dangerous to delay.
*
The correct way to read 1457 then is that once a year a confession is cumpulsory, disposition irrelevant, not that an individual has a year to confess his mortal sin.

AndyF
 
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