Record of Confirmation

[Jmburgard]

Okay, so a friend of mine has an interesting problem. She was confirmed, but has no record of it. Her parents dislike the parish they were in, had friends in another parish, and essentially smuggled her into line during confirmation, To the best of my knowledge, she was confirmed, but the parish has no record of it.

Is there a normal course of events in cases like this (not that this is really a normal case)? Also, is it possible to confirm in uncertainty, i.e. we think you were confirmed, but we will do it again with a ‘if she is not confirmed’ clause?

 

[chicago]

I would imagine that she could be offerred a conditional confirmnation (“In case you were never previously confirmed, I confirm you”), but the matter likely needs to be taken up with the bishop through a pastor. I imagine that if there were witnesses to the confirmation who can attest to it, that would help somehow. Does your friend definitively remember having been confirmed? I mean, if she is she is and there isn’t ultimately all that much which requires proof of it by Catholics for anything very often.

 

[puzzleannie]

this is exactly why we have a preparation process for confirmation, one which many posters here have protested about. this person is hardly in a position to complain that the parish did not make a record of an event of which they had no knowledge. Nobody could smuggle anyone in here because myself and 6 catechists are watching like a hawk, because we have to witness that those who are supposed to be present are, in fact, confirmed, and those who have no business being her do not approach the bishop.

On the other hand, each year there are candidates who fail to provide a baptismal certificate, so we have no way of notifying their baptismal parish, so when they go to get married, the record will not be there. Oh well.

With regard to both baptism and confirmation, if the original record cannot be found, the witnesses may attest to the fact of the sacrament with a notarized statement. Call the person in the diocese in charge of sacramental records for guidelines.

 

[Chatter163]

On the other hand, each year there are candidates who fail to provide a baptismal certificate, so we have no way of notifying their baptismal parish, so when they go to get married, the record will not be there. Oh well.

Why would anyone be permitted to be confirmed, who had not previously presented a baptismal certificate?

 

[puzzleannie]

Chatter163:

Why would anyone be permitted to be confirmed, who had not previously presented a baptismal certificate?

because we cannot deny the sacrament to one who is of age and has completed the preparation and asked for the sacrament. If they have made first communion presumably they were baptized and we have to rely on the testimony of the parents that they are baptized.

 

[Chatter163]

because we cannot deny the sacrament to one who is of age and has completed the preparation and asked for the sacrament. If they have made first communion presumably they were baptized and we have to rely on the testimony of the parents that they are baptized.

That is not correct. Since baptism is a prerequisite, a pastor has every right–indeed, an obligation–to insist upon proof of baptism. Otherwise, the person may be conditionally baptized before receiving the sacrament of confirmation.

Many dioceses require this, including my own. From the diocesan policy:

"Pastors are to make sure that proof of baptism is established for all candidates to be confirmed."

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

chicago:

I would imagine that she could be offerred a conditional confirmnation (“In case you were never previously confirmed, I confirm you”), but the matter likely needs to be taken up with the bishop through a pastor. I imagine that if there were witnesses to the confirmation who can attest to it, that would help somehow. Does your friend definitively remember having been confirmed? I mean, if she is she is and there isn’t ultimately all that much which requires proof of it by Catholics for anything very often.

Her parents committed a grave injustice against the Sacrament of Confirmation by doing this and it is they who have created this situation. No there is no “conditional” Sacrament of Confirmation since Confirmation is not a Sacrament required for Salvation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

puzzleannie:

On the other hand, each year there are candidates who fail to provide a baptismal certificate, so we have no way of notifying their baptismal parish, so when they go to get married, the record will not be there. Oh well.

How does a parish allow a person without a Baptismal certificate to receive Confirmation? Or First Communion for that matter? Canon Law requires that valid Baptism be varified without any doubt before being admitted to any of the other Sacraments.

 

[puzzleannie]

Br. Rich SFO:

How does a parish allow a person without a Baptismal certificate to receive Confirmation? Or First Communion for that matter? Canon Law requires that valid Baptism be varified without any doubt before being admitted to any of the other Sacraments.

quite right and the particular law for our diocese requires that we admit the testimony of parents and witnesses to the baptism as evidence if the actual certificate is unobtainable. as usual, I refer such cases to the pastor or deacon and would not dream of making such a decision on my own authority. a conditional baptism may not be performed if there is good reason to believe the individual was validly baptized.

this whole discussion is part of the larger topic of preparedness for confirmation. One prerequisite for receiving the Holy Spirit and His gifts is humility, docility and obedience. The rites of Christian Initiation and the preparation process for these rites include submission to Church belief and laws. When candidates, or their parents, object to the valid rules make by the Church to safeguard the sacraments and their validity, and take steps to subvert or ignore those roles they are guilty of disobedience, a sin against the 4th commandment, and possibly of the 3rd commandment, which prohibits actions against the Church. For a parent to encourage a child in such disobedience is also a grave sin, in my view, and contrary to all the theology of confirmation and initiation, becoming part of the community, the Church founded by Christ.

 

[Digitonomy]

Br. Rich SFO:

No there is no “conditional” Sacrament of Confirmation since Confirmation is not a Sacrament required for Salvation.

So by that logic there is no conditional ordination either?