Secular Faith

[Bubba_Switzler]

Mark A. Smith is a professor of political science at the University of Washington, where he also teaches comparative religion. His “Secular Faith” is a spirited and contrarian entry in the debate over what to make of the religious element of the “culture wars.” Against the view that religion is a major influence on our politics, Mr. Smith sets out to argue, as his subtitle puts it, “how culture has trumped religion.”

Mr. Smith’s focus is on American Christianity, which is, of course, hardly monolithic. That mainline Protestant denominations have made peace with modernity and actively promoted progressive views will come as a surprise to no one. Mr. Smith’s assessment of Catholicism—which focuses on the gap between church doctrine on such matters as birth control and sexual morality and the attitudes and practices of Catholics themselves—is likewise familiar. The startling element here is his depiction of the changes in outlook among traditionally conservative, often evangelical Protestants.

His central observation is that “Christians are part of society, not separate from it.” They “have openly or tacitly accepted many modern ideas by either changing their long-standing positions or refraining from political action.” More, “Christians of earlier centuries would be shocked and appalled if they knew about some of the beliefs and practices of Christians today.” To make his case, Mr. Smith draws on sources ranging from the statements of religious leaders to the scholarly literature on Christianity in America and public-opinion survey research. Throughout, he strives to be attentive not only to what Christians are saying but also to what they are choosing not to talk about, a source of much of the book’s polemical zest.

wsj.com/articles/how-culture-beat-religion-1456095853

amazon.com/Secular-Faith-Religion-American-Politics/dp/022627506X

A WSJ review of a new book, Secular Faith: How Culture Has Trumped Religion in American Politics, essentially argues that Christianity is getting it’s clock cleaned by the secular culture.

 

[NM505StKate]

So a good book to read???

 

[Lenten_ashes]

What’s a “pagan catholic”

 

[Brandon_Cal]

I say this sincerely and without sarcasm: you should consider a job in marketing.

The lede you provided was quite titillating such that upon seeing that the only two links provided are a paywall periodical and a book selling site I almost subscribed to WSJ to keep reading.

Without running afoul of copyright infringement, could you toss us a couple more bones to pick at?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

wsj.com/articles/how-culture-beat-religion-1456095853

amazon.com/Secular-Faith-Religion-American-Politics/dp/022627506X

A WSJ review of a new book, Secular Faith: How Culture Has Trumped Religion in American Politics, essentially argues that Christianity is getting it’s clock cleaned by the secular culture.

And your question is?

 

[Aloysium]

We are called to be saints. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. The Church, as the soul of humanity, guided by the Holy Spirit must necessarily hold to the truth, remaining the quickest and surest route to salvation. The book appears to show how without a relationship with what is central to the subject matter - God, one can be an expert on religions and remain clueless.

 

[Lucretius]

I think that is Westerners are tired of Western culture, and we are actively trying to destroy it. Not for its own sake, but for that rebirth that follows the death. This is obvious in education and in politics.

But more specifically, we must remember that secularism is itself a religion (the way we define religion today is entirely arbritary). Chesterton said that it was a sort of Paganism, but the worse parts of it, the parts that happen “at the pagan old age.”

Paganism often ends in homosexuality and human sacrifice, and notice how both of them are considered fundamental today?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[NM505StKate]

I think that is Westerners are tired of Western culture, and we are actively trying to destroy it. Not for its own sake, but for that rebirth that follows the death. This is obvious in education and in politics.

But more specifically, we must remember that secularism is itself a religion (the way we define religion today is entirely arbritary). Chesterton said that it was a sort of Paganism, but the worse parts of it, the parts that happen “at the pagan old age.”

Paganism often ends in homosexuality and human sacrifice, and notice how both of them are considered fundamental today?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

W T F. Seriously. Paganism often ends in homosexuality and human sacrifice? Dude you need some counseling because that is way out of right field. Secularism, by its definition is not a religion. This blows my mind.

 

[Lucretius]

W T F. Seriously. Paganism often ends in homosexuality and human sacrifice? Dude you need some counseling because that is way out of right field. Secularism, by its definition is not a religion. This blows my mind.

But “secularism,” as it is called in our culture, makes claims about the meaning of the universe, which would make it a religion.

And Paganism can and does end in these sort of things. The Greeks ended in homosexuality, and the Carthaginians ended in child Sacrifice, for example.

There is a good kind of paganism, but it was eventually absorbed into Christianity. And the good and bad parts of Paganism often exist in the same society.

I’m actually just following some of Chesterton’s insights in his book The Everlasting Man. It’s a great book, C. S. Lewis said it was a major factor in his conversion to Christianity, and I recommend it to everyone,* for at least the excellent chapter Man and Mythologies, which is arguably one of the best essays Chesterton wrote.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

*Here’s a link a bunch of Chesterton books, including the Everlasting Man: cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/

 

[NM505StKate]

But “secularism,” as it is called in our culture, makes claims about the meaning of the universe, which would make it a religion.

And Paganism can and does end in these sort of things. The Greeks ended in homosexuality, and the Carthaginians ended in child Sacrifice, for example.

There is a good kind of paganism, but it was eventually absorbed into Christianity. And the good and bad parts of Paganism often exist in the same society.

I’m actually just following some of Chesterton’s insights in his book The Everlasting Man. It’s a great book, C. S. Lewis said it was a major factor in his conversion to Christianity, and I recommend it to everyone,* for at least the excellent chapter Man and Mythologies, which is arguably one of the best essays Chesterton wrote.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

*Here’s a link a bunch of Chesterton books, including the Everlasting Man: cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/

This is hurting my brain. What claim of the universe does secularism say? Good kind of paganism?

 

[Lucretius]

This is hurting my brain. What claim of the universe does secularism say? Good kind of paganism?

For starters, modernists claim that abortion is a fundamental right. They also seem to think that the only thing with inherent meaning is the human will, with everything else being raw material to shape as we wish.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[NM505StKate]

For starters, modernists claim that abortion is a fundamental right. They also seem to think that the only thing with inherent meaning is the human will, with everything else being raw material to shape as we wish.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Considering that this; dictionary.reference.com/browse/modernism : is the definition of modernism I am not seeing where you are drawing this conclusion. You seem to be jumping from definition to definition.

 

[Lucretius]

Considering that this; dictionary.reference.com/browse/modernism : is the definition of modernism I am not seeing where you are drawing this conclusion. You seem to be jumping from definition to definition.

Even with this definition, my point still stands (lots of modern people see consent as the only rule in ethics, and they accept abortion).

But what I had in mind was the metaphysical view of mechanicalism created by Galileo, Descartes, and Bacon, among others.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I think that is Westerners are tired of Western culture

I think that cultures tend to evolve with time, western cultures being no exception to this.

But “secularism,” as it is called in our culture, makes claims about the meaning of the universe, which would make it a religion.

Someone can make a secular argument about the universe or something in it, but such arguments are not necessarily part of secularism. Another person could from a secular perspective disagree with the arguments that another puts forward.

 

[NM505StKate]

I think that cultures tend to evolve with time, western cultures being no exception to this.

Someone can make a secular argument about the universe or something in it, but such arguments are not necessarily part of secularism. Another person could from a secular perspective disagree with the arguments that another puts forward.

This. Pretty much this.

 

[Lucretius]

I think that cultures tend to evolve with time, western cultures being no exception to this.

But there are certain foundations of the West that make it what it is (like Christianity, the emphasis on human rights, the trust in reason, etc.). But even these things are being rejected.

Someone can make a secular argument about the universe or something in it, but such arguments are not necessarily part of secularism. Another person could from a secular perspective disagree with the arguments that another puts forward.

I don’t want this discussion to descend into arguing over the meaning of words, so we should first discover what it means for a view to be religious, so that we can then determine what it means to be a secular view.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[NM505StKate]

But there are certain foundations of the West that make it what it is (like Christianity, the emphasis on human rights, the trust in reason, etc.). But even these things are being rejected.

I don’t want this discussion to descend into arguing over the meaning of words, so we should first discover what it means for a view to be religious, so that we can then determine what it means to be a secular view.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Who says that there is no trust in reason?

 

[Lucretius]

Who says that there is no trust in reason?

They refuse to see the reasons for philosophies they disagree with. Furthermore, they tend to refuse to take the logical conclusion of post-modernists thought serious, a sort of Comfortable Nietzschean nightmare. They worship this thing they call reason, but it is arbritary and based on sentimental.

This is one of those situations where there are to many examples of.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Without running afoul of copyright infringement, could you toss us a couple more bones to pick at?

Here is a concluding quote:

Mr. Smith is generally persuasive in demonstrating that broad cultural trends have influenced religious views. Old-school religious ideas about such subjects as homosexuality and the role of women have proved to be no match for the spirit of freedom and equality that has been gathering force for centuries now. Second-class citizenship demands rectification. Religion is indeed a part of culture and often follows its direction.

The reviewer does make the point that on abortion Christians seem to be doing better but that seems more like the exception that proves the rule.

And your question is?

Why is Christianity losing ground? Why are anti-Christians running victory laps?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

This is hurting my brain. What claim of the universe does secularism say? Good kind of paganism?

One of the most ancient forms would be epicurianism.