Senderesis, extensive good, and conscience

[St_Francis]

I am reading a book in which it is described that Wllm of Ockham changed our view of good as being an actual thing to being something merely decided upon and the many results of that.

I have two questions about what I am reading, and the first is:

I assume St Thomas Aquinas is correct, but I see that there are people who do really bad, evil things. Is it possible that having the wrong ideas of good and evil and conscience, would allow people consciences to become so deformed that they could see horrific evil as good… or in fact, simply be incapable of seeing evil at all? (I am asking specifically if the erroneous philosophy could cause this deformation, since I understand that sin itself warps the intellect.)

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Could you provide a link for the book? And are you looking for interpretation of St. Thomas’s thought, or just opinions on some questions the book raises for you?

The following is my opinion on the subject, not a commentary on the thought of St. Thomas. I think the answer is yes; wrong ideas can deform the conscience. Having a sin-darkened intellect predisposes one to embrace wrong ideas, but a young or otherwise impressionable individual could also be malformed largely or entirely through no fault of his own. In that case his culpability for consequent acts could be reduced significantly.

 

[LethalMouse]

I am reading a book in which it is described that Wllm of Ockham changed our view of good as being an actual thing to being something merely decided upon and the many results of that.

I have two questions about what I am reading, and the first is:

I assume St Thomas Aquinas is correct, but I see that there are people who do really bad, evil things. Is it possible that having the wrong ideas of good and evil and conscience, would allow people consciences to become so deformed that they could see horrific evil as good… or in fact, simply be incapable of seeing evil at all? (I am asking specifically if the erroneous philosophy could cause this deformation, since I understand that sin itself warps the intellect.)

I like to hang with sinners, most are just insane.

How can a cheating woman claim victim status when she was cheating the whole time?

How can a man who does not pay rent and was given over 6 months leeway and a thousand chances over 3 yrs and numerous (pay rent on tine once and I cut your debt deals) that said renter did not pay… turn and say upon eviction that the landlord is an unjust scum?

How can someone cheat on another and then say they didn’t really because well they were already “done” in their mind so they didnt cheat and the other person is horrible for claining they got cheated on.

How can someone borrow money to pay life sustaining bills and upon date of repayment show up in a new car and not pay, then be wholly convinced that the loaner of money is unjust for excpecting the money back… the lonee is just trying to scrape by and survive (with their flar screen tvs and new cars and iphone 27s)

How can these people truly believe they are not wrong? How can they believe the others were pure evil and then innocent… even victims?

PEOPLE ARE FREAKING INSANE. That is the answer.

 

[St_Francis]

Could you provide a link for the book? And are you looking for interpretation of St. Thomas’s thought, or just opinions on some questions the book raises for you?

The following is my opinion on the subject, not a commentary on the thought of St. Thomas. I think the answer is yes; wrong ideas can deform the conscience. Having a sin-darkened intellect predisposes one to embrace wrong ideas, but a young or otherwise impressionable individual could also be malformed largely or entirely through no fault of his own. In that case his culpability for consequent acts could be reduced significantly.

The book is fairly new; it’s called the Noonday Devil and is about acedia.

Your opinion is in line with what I am wondering, but I realize I forgot why this is puzzling to me: that we are told we have the law written on our hearts. Can the law on our hearts be overwritten, as it were?

 

[Ad_Orientem]

… we are told we have the law written on our hearts. Can the law on our hearts be overwritten, as it were?

Ah, good question. It can’t be overwritten, but it can be overridden. Pope Pius XII addressed this issue at the beginning of Humani Generis (cf. CCC 37):

[T]hough, absolutely speaking, human reason by its own natural force and light can arrive at a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, Who by His providence watches over and governs the world, and also of the natural law, which the Creator has written in our hearts, still there are not a few obstacles to prevent reason from making efficient and fruitful use of its natural ability. The truths that have to do with God and the relations between God and men, completely surpass the sensible order and demand self-surrender and self-abnegation in order to be put into practice and to influence practical life. Now the human intellect, in gaining the knowledge of such truths is hampered both by the activity of the senses and the imagination, and by evil passions arising from original sin. Hence men easily persuade themselves in such matters that what they do not wish to believe is false or at least doubtful.

It is for this reason that divine revelation must be considered morally necessary so that those religious and moral truths which are not of their nature beyond the reach of reason in the present condition of the human race, may be known by all mean readily with a firm certainty and with freedom from all error.

 

[St_Francis]

Ah, good question. It can’t be overwritten, but it can be overridden. Pope Pius XII addressed this issue at the beginning of Humani Generis (cf. CCC 37):

[T]hough, absolutely speaking, human reason by its own natural force and light can arrive at a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, Who by His providence watches over and governs the world, and also of the natural law, which the Creator has written in our hearts, still there are not a few obstacles to prevent reason from making efficient and fruitful use of its natural ability. The truths that have to do with God and the relations between God and men, completely surpass the sensible order and demand self-surrender and self-abnegation in order to be put into practice and to influence practical life. Now the human intellect, in gaining the knowledge of such truths is hampered both by the activity of the senses and the imagination, and by evil passions arising from original sin. Hence men easily persuade themselves in such matters that what they do not wish to believe is false or at least doubtful.

It is for this reason that divine revelation must be considered morally necessary so that those religious and moral truths which are not of their nature beyond the reach of reason in the present condition of the human race, may be known by all mean readily with a firm certainty and with freedom from all error.

Thank you. I really like the way he says we need to know the truth about God in order to understand the truth about man!