Shari'a Law in the United States

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FightingFat

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First in Europe and now in the United States, Muslim groups have petitioned to establish enclaves in which they can uphold and enforce greater compliance to Islamic law. While the U.S. Constitution enshrines the right to religious freedom and the prohibition against a state religion, when it comes to the rights of religious enclaves to impose communal rules, the dividing line is more nebulous. Can U.S. enclaves, homeowner associations, and other groups enforce Islamic law?

meforum.org/pf.php?id=920
 
in my part time job i work with nigerian students, they have sharia law in one part of the country, in their words it is inhumane barbaric and down right evil, if they break sharia law they are tried by it even if they are christian, they love the freedom they have in britain and think sharia law should be strongly resisted
 
Can’t happen in the UK because of the Human Rights Act, among other things. Fortunately Labour decided to do a few good things when they first came into office, before they set about systematically dismantling our civil liberties.

Mike
 
Won’t happen in the US no matter how many white papers they write. They can’t get past the Consititution with this notion.
 
I think if this were challenged in the US it would not stand up in a court.

Lisa
 
There is an enclave of “Irish Travelers” not too distant from me that unofficially enforces their own version of Catholic law for things that happen within their village. Hard facts about them are hard to come by but when you hear similar stories all your life, you tend to believe at least part of them. As long as they don’t cause trouble in the larger community, the local sheriff pretty much leaves them alone. I could see something similar happening in a Muslim community - until someone made a public complaint or the newspapers got hold of it. Then, it would come to a screeching halt.
 
In the strictest sense, it is all right for muslims to establish a religious enclave requiring compliance with Islamic law isn’t it? Christian groups, especially evangelicals, have done so in the U.S. since the very beginning:

The Puritans
The Shakers
The Quakers
The Shake-and-Bakers (just kidding)
The Amish
The Mennonites
The Baptists
The Mormons

Most recently, several Florida towns were established specifically by religious groups because, until the mid-20th century, the towns were so remote that there was little or no government oversight and the town leaders could impose laws & punishment as they pleased.

However, modern times being what they are, few towns are so remote, and an Islamic enclave would have problems if their laws conflict with state or federal laws. The Amish for example have had to fight to keep the state from forcing their children to attend school past the age of 14, and had to fight for conscientious objector status (exemption from draft laws). But they’ve had to compromise on a few things, like installing taillights and reflectors on their horse-drawn carriages. And the stricter parts of Shari’a law would definitely fall into conflict with state & federal laws.
 
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FightingFat:
In the strictest sense, it is all right for muslims to establish a religious enclave requiring compliance with Islamic law isn’t it?
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Only if it doesn’t conflict with any rights or responsibilities under US law. For example, they can’t corporally punish someone for converting to another religion, nor can they have more than one wife.
 
No polygamy, no stoning, no beheading, no cutting off limbs, no religious symbols on public land, no prayer in public schools, no forced dress code in public places, no beating wives, no special tax on non-Muslims, no honor killings and a few other things other than that no problem.
 
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gilliam:
Only if it doesn’t conflict with any rights or responsibilities under US law. For example, they can’t corporally punish someone for converting to another religion, nor can they have more than one wife.
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Exactly. They would not be allowed to infringe on someone else’s rights (i.e. enforce it on someone who does not wish to be a part of it). Neither would they be allowed to circumvent established US/State/local laws.

Now I don’t think the notion would be a very popular one in the US at the current time. I’m sure it would cause a ‘stink’ if it were to become public knowledge that such a community were in exsistence within the US. Especially on the heels of the recent problem in Afghanistan and the man who converted to Christianity…that has left a ‘bad taste’ in the mouths of people in
Western societies.

Lisa
 
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Lance:
No polygamy, no stoning, no beheading, no cutting off limbs, no religious symbols on public land, no prayer in public schools, no forced dress code in public places, no beating wives, no special tax on non-Muslims, no honor killings and a few other things other than that no problem.
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What if they are a pedophile?
 
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geezerbob:
There is an enclave of “Irish Travelers” not too distant from me that unofficially enforces their own version of Catholic law for things that happen within their village. Hard facts about them are hard to come by but when you hear similar stories all your life, you tend to believe at least part of them. As long as they don’t cause trouble in the larger community, the local sheriff pretty much leaves them alone. I could see something similar happening in a Muslim community - until someone made a public complaint or the newspapers got hold of it. Then, it would come to a screeching halt.
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:eek:

Irish Travellers in America? I didn’t realise when we brought in harsh laws against them, when they emigrated, they not only went to Britain, but America too!

I find it hard to believe they uphold true Catholic beliefs, though you did say “Their own” - They seem to advocate some form of “in-breeding”, with cousins and what not. (I believe quite a few arranged marriages in Pakistan and India are like that too)

Fighting Fat: “The Shake-and-Bakers (just kidding)”
Hehehe. But, eh… You listed Mormonism as Christian? I don’t understand, is it counted as a religion in America? Here it is certainly not, and counted as a New Religious Movement (Along with Jehova’s Witnessism)

But yes, also cults and NRMs are able to do that in America too. Though I believe they’ll certainly be monitored, yes?
public land, no prayer in public schools, no forced dress code in public places
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Again, I love Ireland for the fact all public and national land can be, and mostly is, religious or contains religious markings, symbols etc… Ie, public schools, government offices, courts of law etc… Religion is actively tought in our schools, of course, Catholicism (Same for religious symbols etc…), and schools (public and private) mostly have a strict dress code, ie, uniform. 🙂
 
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geezerbob:
There is an enclave of “Irish Travelers” not too distant from me that unofficially enforces their own version of Catholic law for things that happen within their village. Hard facts about them are hard to come by but when you hear similar stories all your life, you tend to believe at least part of them. As long as they don’t cause trouble in the larger community, the local sheriff pretty much leaves them alone. I could see something similar happening in a Muslim community - until someone made a public complaint or the newspapers got hold of it. Then, it would come to a screeching halt.
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Where in the world are they? Lexington County?
 
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Lischou:
Exactly. They would not be allowed to infringe on someone else’s rights (i.e. enforce it on someone who does not wish to be a part of it).
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Some laws don’t need anyone to file a complaint. Murder is well defined in the US and if they decided to stone a woman for adultary, they would be arrested even if no one filed a complaint.
 
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gilliam:
Some laws don’t need anyone to file a complaint. Murder is well defined in the US and if they decided to stone a woman for adultary, they would be arrested even if no one filed a complaint.
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True enough, but I wasn’t thinking of anything that extreme.

Lisa
 
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wabrams:
What if they are a pedophile?
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Am not sure I understand the question but if Shari law calls for anything different than US law then US law takes prcedent. They could ex-communicate, or whatever their equivalent is, but must follow the US law as for prison time, fines, etc.
 
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Lance:
Am not sure I understand the question but if Shari law calls for anything different than US law then US law takes prcedent. They could ex-communicate, or whatever their equivalent is, but must follow the US law as for prison time, fines, etc.
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Sorry, I should have put some kind of smiley next to the question. It was supposed to be kinda light.
 
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Lance:
Am not sure I understand the question but if Shari law calls for anything different than US law then US law takes prcedent. They could ex-communicate, or whatever their equivalent is, but must follow the US law as for prison time, fines, etc.
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Like it happened in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and there are suspictions in UK, the pedophile thing isn´t strange in imans, and they aren´t celibes.
 
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