I have read that a Lutheran Ordinariate had been tentatively discussed in the last 3 years. It might happen, but only if requested by Lutheran individuals, or former Lutherans who converted to Catholic. The difference between the Anglican experience and Lutherans is that Anglicans had nothing like the LCMS, a strong, orthodox, permanent structure with a long history and national coverage (along with international partners). The Anglican alternatives - the Continuum, ACNA, perhaps others) are orthodox but still very fragile, quite new. If the Anglicans had a strong option like the LCMS, there would have been less demand for the Ordinariate.
I think you’ve more or less correctly described the basics of the Anglican situation, but the Lutheran situation is more nuanced. I don’t know of a single Lutheran who would take part in a Lutheran Ordinariate (not saying such people don’t exist, of course) unless it was exempt from having to subscribe to Universal Immediate Jurisdiction, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, Transubstantiation, and other dogmas peculiar to the RCC - in other words, those Lutherans would be better off becoming Roman Catholic than clinging to an empty Lutheran identity.
Apart from the orthodoxy issue, are there features - Lutheran “patrimony” so to speak - specific to ELCA’s Lutheran heritage, that are not part of LCMS’ heritage? For instance, would there be any orthodox individuals in ELCA, who would look at the LCMS and say I agree with their strong doctrine, but I would never be comfortable with their style of worship, or LCMS-specific something else?
Not so much; Confessional Lutheranism is Confessional Lutheranism. The Divine Service is recognizable to every Lutheran whether they come from a German or Scandinavian background. A good 90% of the time, a Confessional Lutheran remains in the ELCA with the desperate and noble goal of righting the ship. There are several ELCA pastors who have posted -carefully- on these boards regarding this very topic. They can be found and PM’ed. Their situation, due to their leadership, is precarious. They require our prayers.
A Confessional ELCAer might be concerned about the ‘Church Growth’ movement - but so are Confessional LCMSers and that movement has infiltrated the ELCA, too.
(For those unfamiliar, ‘Church Growth’ is a group that, while confessing solid doctrine, sometimes inadvertently de-emphasizes it by adopting “Contemporary Worship” styles and “Missional Programs” from American Evangelical movements in an effort to attract youth.)
To return to the OP, is there any ongoing reunification talks between ELCA and LCMS, or efforts to expand cooperative efforts in catechesis, social ministry, between those 2 church bodies? It seems like the small bridges should be built before consideration of much longer bridges.
No. The swim from St. Louis to Rome is shorter than the distance between St. Louis and Chicago. See below:
The LCMS and ELCA will never reunify. There’s way too many theological, moral and social differences to really consider it at this point. They’re almost two completely different denominations.
:sad_yes: Agreed. The LCMS (and other Confessional Lutherans) are closer to the RCC than to the ELCA, particularly on moral issues. The RCC and the LCMS are also moving closer to convergence on
doctrinal issues. The ELCA, on the other hand, continues to wade deeper and deeper into the murky waters of relativism and pluralism - dialogue with a sinking target is impossible. That’s not a judgement on the many good Lutherans who remain in the ELCA, it’s simply an admission that the ELCA as a whole is not an orthodox Lutheran body, as Confessional Lutheran Synods have noted:
LCMS,
LOC,
WELS, just Google for more.
I want to emphasize that Confessional Lutheranism is not confined to, nor perfectly expressed in any one Synod. In fact, this is the precise reason Confessional Lutheran bodies often do not share full pulpit and altar fellowship. In a way, it’s each Synod’s “job” to keep the others in check. Small (but important) issues keep the Synods apart, but Confessional Lutherans still recognize each other as Lutheran. So the Synods
meet occasionally and irregularly to admonish one another and call each other to repentance. Seminaries are often shared, ordinations and Sacraments are considered valid and respect is afforded.
This is how I can be 99% certain that a Lutheran from the LCMS, WELS, EECMY, ELS, CLC, LMS-USA, LCS, LCC, AALC or any of the other member Synods of the
International Lutheran Council or the
Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference is an orthodox Lutheran.
What a wonderful way to not only build your understanding of Roman Catholicism, but also gain greater appreciation for your own Lutheran faith.
