Sin in Purgatory

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wk11

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Of course as Catholics we believe that our souls will undergo a final purification after death, in purgatory. One thought on my mind has been whether or not we are still able to commit sin in purgatory. I would tend towards saying “no,” but I’d like to examine the issue more. If we can still sin, what exactly would that look like given that we are parted from our earthly bodies and being actively purified of sin. If not, then why?
 
wk11 said:
Of course as Catholics we believe that our souls will undergo a final purification after death, in purgatory. One thought on my mind has been whether or not we are still able to commit sin in purgatory. I would tend towards saying “no,” but I’d like to examine the issue more. If we can still sin, what exactly would that look like given that we are parted from our earthly bodies and being actively purified of sin. If not, then why?
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I believe that our freewill will still be in tact in purgatory so although we might still be capable of sin we would now be acutely aware of the bad effects of sin on ourselves and on others. I think that sinning would be the last thing we would be inclined to do as we would not be willing to offend God being aware of the depth of his eternal love for us.
 
What sin would we commit in Purgatory - Lying, Stealing or Murder. And if we could murder someone would we then be moved from Purgatory to Hell?
 
wk11 said:
Of course as Catholics we believe that our souls will undergo a final purification after death, in purgatory. One thought on my mind has been whether or not we are still able to commit sin in purgatory. I would tend towards saying “no,” but I’d like to examine the issue more. If we can still sin, what exactly would that look like given that we are parted from our earthly bodies and being actively purified of sin. If not, then why?
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How about sining in Heaven? Angel did it so we could do either.
 
You can essentially always sin. I think there is a whole process that basically by the time God has everything “finalized” no one will be in the kingdom who will sin.

I would also add that in Heaven it is probably harder to sin…

Adam and Eve only had one rule… the rest came later. Even Cain and Abel weren’t given a set of rules to follow other than natural law. So I think in Heaven you would basically need to be seriously evil to have anything you want to do to sin.

As to purgatory directly, I think those still there at the end times may be some of the resurrected outside the City of God, and the ultimate choice to sin/not sin would come in if they choose to side with the devil or refuse. I think the test at that point is trust vs fear… the decision to go against God being out of fear of staying outside in rejection, rather than trusting Him and siding with him.
 
Bahman said:
How about sining in Heaven? Angel did it so we could do either.
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The angels were not in Heaven before they made their choice.

As for Purgatory, we are naturally material beings, meaning, I think we’ll have some limitations after death until the resurrection, even if God opens up other avenues for us. Purgatory is more of a state, and whatever “choice” we made (whatever state of grace we were in at death) is irreversible at that point. Though I’ve heard some believe we continue on that trajectory.
 
Bahman said:
How about sining in Heaven? Angel did it so we could do either.
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This is not quite correct Bahaman.

The Angels did not “sin in Heaven.” At the moment of their creation they were given a choice; serve God or reject God. This was an instantaneous decision because the “thought” of angels is instantaneous. They do not follow cause and effect in a progression the way we do; all facets of a choice are known to them from the start. Those who chose to reject God were cast out of Heaven. It’s not like they were up there for a while and then suddenly decided that they changed their minds about God. That’s how the media likes to portray it, but it’s an inaccurate portrayal.

As for us, the people who are in Heaven have already made the choice to serve God, so while it would be technically possible for us to sin because our wills would remain intact, our wills will be so completely and wholly conformed to God’s that we simply wouldn’t -want- to sin. Those in Heaven no longer suffer from concupiscence (the inclination towards sin) so the very notion of sinning wouldn’t even enter into our thoughts.
 
Dear friends
Souls in purgatory have already undergone personal judgement and are on a one way road to heaven. They have already been redeemed and so can not sin.

On the other hand they can and do perform good works by praying for us still here on earth.
 
reagent6 said:
Dear friends
Souls in purgatory have already undergone personal judgement and are on a one way road to heaven. They have already been redeemed and so can not sin.

On the other hand they can and do perform good works by praying for us still here on earth.
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This^^.
 
reagent6 said:
Dear friends
Souls in purgatory have already undergone personal judgement and are on a one way road to heaven. They have already been redeemed and so can not sin.

On the other hand they can and do perform good works by praying for us still here on earth.
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👍

The technical ability to sin does not change the practical reality that they wouldn’t, and so for all practical purposes, sin in either Purgatory or Heaven is impossible.
 
Was going to lay in that the teaching is judgment would be before purgatory, but that’s been hit above.

That’s the ‘why’, to ‘no’.
 
reagent6 said:
Dear friends
Souls in purgatory have already undergone personal judgement and are on a one way road to heaven. They have already been redeemed and so can not sin.

On the other hand they can and do perform good works by praying for us still here on earth.
Click to expand...
This is correct…also, in Purgatory the souls are “suffering because of unforgiven venial sins or uncompleted punishment due to sins already forgiven in this life.” - Catholic Encyclopedia. “The opinion of Luther that souls in purgatory are capable of sinning and are not certain of salvation was condemned by Pope Leo X in his bull, Exsurge Domine (1520).”- Cath. Enc.
 
Wesrock said:
The angels were not in Heaven before they made their choice.

As for Purgatory, we are naturally material beings, meaning, I think we’ll have some limitations after death until the resurrection, even if God opens up other avenues for us. Purgatory is more of a state, and whatever “choice” we made (whatever state of grace we were in at death) is irreversible at that point. Though I’ve heard some believe we continue on that trajectory.
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Luke 10:18 "And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”
 
ProdglArchitect said:
This is not quite correct Bahaman.

The Angels did not “sin in Heaven.” At the moment of their creation they were given a choice; serve God or reject God. This was an instantaneous decision because the “thought” of angels is instantaneous. They do not follow cause and effect in a progression the way we do; all facets of a choice are known to them from the start. Those who chose to reject God were cast out of Heaven. It’s not like they were up there for a while and then suddenly decided that they changed their minds about God. That’s how the media likes to portray it, but it’s an inaccurate portrayal.

As for us, the people who are in Heaven have already made the choice to serve God, so while it would be technically possible for us to sin because our wills would remain intact, our wills will be so completely and wholly conformed to God’s that we simply wouldn’t -want- to sin. Those in Heaven no longer suffer from concupiscence (the inclination towards sin) so the very notion of sinning wouldn’t even enter into our thoughts.
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Luke 10:18 says different: And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”
 
A couple points on the Angels aspect.

Don’t overlook the word ‘like’ in the quotes above there from the Bible.

Also, this could be a similar case as the descent to ‘hell’ situation where the word used is not the exact same place as where and what we commonly understand and teach as ‘heaven’.

That place of a glorious perfect unity with God, a final residence where all in it are pure as however God defines and purifies.

The thread is on purgatory and the answer is clear in the teaching that only humans go to purgatory.

My guess is ‘the heavens’ and a final residence of ‘heaven’ can co-exist for only Angels, similar to purgatory for humans, and Angels who are in union with God are the only ones that can reside in the residence.

The other Angels do what is quoted above, fall.

Of course that would be outside of time, so I think the ‘place’ of ‘the heavens’ doesn’t have loiters, so assuming instant decision making, as noted above.

Take care,

Mike
 
QUOTE=Joseph3;13862938]I do not believe that one can sin past death.
:thumbsup:
 
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