Testing Darwin's Teachers

[WanderAimlessly]

I am surprised the students have not been expelled for viewpoint discrimination

Testing Darwin’s Teachers *
Sometimes disruptive but often sophisticated questioning of evolution by students has educators increasingly on the defensive.*
By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer
March 31, 2006

     LIBERTY, Mo. — Monday morning, Room 207: First day of a unit on the origins of life. Veteran biology teacher Al Frisby switches on the overhead projector and braces himself.

As his students rummage for their notebooks, Frisby introduces his central theme: Every creature on Earth has been shaped by random mutation and natural selection — in a word, by evolution.

Full Story

PF

 

[Thekla]

WanderAimlessly:

I am surprised the students have not been expelled for viewpoint discrimination PF

I am thankful every day for being raised Catholic and being able to do the same for my kids. We are so lucky to be of a faith that no longer belittles science but, in fact, embraces it and shines bright light on these issues.

I can only imaging Brother Kasimir’s horror if I had mouthed off in Biology the way this poor ignorant young man did, “Frisby tries to explain that evolution takes millions of years, but Willett isn’t listening. “I feel a tail growing!” he calls to his friends, drawing laughter.”

My hope is that the moral and scientific authority with which the Roman Catholic Church speaks spreads to these bastions of empty heads.

 

[bones_IV]

WanderAimlessly:

I am surprised the students have not been expelled for viewpoint discrimination PF

 

[Della]

I can’t work up any sympathy for science teachers. They’ve sat on any dissent for a couple of generations and now the shoe is on the other foot. I say GOOD! They should have to defend evolution since it is nothing but a theory based on presumptions, not on real evidence.

 

[Tedster]

Thekla:

I am thankful every day for being raised Catholic and being able to do the same for my kids. We are so lucky to be of a faith that no longer belittles science but, in fact, embraces it and shines bright light on these issues.

I can only imaging Brother Kasimir’s horror if I had mouthed off in Biology the way this poor ignorant young man did, “Frisby tries to explain that evolution takes millions of years, but Willett isn’t listening. “I feel a tail growing!” he calls to his friends, drawing laughter.”

My hope is that the moral and scientific authority with which the Roman Catholic Church speaks spreads to these bastions of empty heads.

The arrogance of the pro-evolutionary theory people never fails to give me a chuckle. One is now considered to have an empty head if they choose not to believe the theory is correct! But I guess there have been a number of threads on this subject to search out and get a few chuckles from.

 

[Della]

Thekla:

My hope is that the moral and scientific authority with which the Roman Catholic Church speaks spreads to these bastions of empty heads.

What “scientific authority” does the Church speak with? None that I know of. Jesus never gave the Church authority to speak on matters of science, only on matters of faith and morals.

The Church has neither embraced nor rejected the various theories of evolution. It has only said that we must believe that the human race came from one man and one woman. Otherwise we are free to believe what we want about the origins of life.

That’s hardly speaking with “scientific authority.” I love the Church as much as any other faithful Catholic, but let’s not give it powers it doesn’t have in our rush to support or not support any scientific theories.

 

[Thekla]

Tedster:

The arrogance of the pro-evolutionary theory people never fails to give me a chuckle. One is now considered to have an empty head if they choose not to believe the theory is correct! But I guess there have been a number of threads on this subject to search out and get a few chuckles from.

I actually read the article and rarely find people who choose ignorance to be amusing. It’s apparent that many of the children have come to a conclusion before they have been taught any of the science on the subject. And from the article, they appear to be actively attempting to block any science from penetrating their “empty” heads. Who is encouraging them to close their minds?

The Roman Catholic Church encourages us to participate in and accept science and certainly not to reject it. Vatican scientists and the Holy Father have vigorously highlighted the Church’s compatability with evotionary theory and God’s Creation and I’m very proud of them.

 

[coyote]

Thekla:

I am thankful every day for being raised Catholic and being able to do the same for my kids. We are so lucky to be of a faith that no longer belittles science but, in fact, embraces it and shines bright light on these issues.

I can only imaging Brother Kasimir’s horror if I had mouthed off in Biology the way this poor ignorant young man did, “Frisby tries to explain that evolution takes millions of years, but Willett isn’t listening. “I feel a tail growing!” he calls to his friends, drawing laughter.”

My hope is that the moral and scientific authority with which the Roman Catholic Church speaks spreads to these bastions of empty heads.

Bless you Thekla! Bless you.

Watch out for the rotten eggs that are going to be thrown by the anti-science crowd.

 

[Della]

coyote:

Bless you Thekla! Bless you.

Watch out for the rotten eggs that are going to be thrown by the anti-science crowd.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there will be no rotten eggs thrown by those of us who do not swallow whole and unquestioned the THEORIES of evolution. And Thekla’s characterization of the Church as embracing evolution is simply wrong. Anyone who claims to believe in the scientific method of investigation ought to be careful in expressing what the Church teaches as much as they are in what real science teaches, don’t you think?

 

[coyote]

Della:

What “scientific authority” does the Church speak with? None that I know of. Jesus never gave the Church authority to speak on matters of science, only on matters of faith and morals.

The Church has neither embraced nor rejected the various theories of evolution. It has only said that we must believe that the human race came from one man and one woman. Otherwise we are free to believe what we want about the origins of life.

That’s hardly speaking with “scientific authority.” I love the Church as much as any other faithful Catholic, but let’s not give it powers it doesn’t have in our rush to support or not support any scientific theories.

This dog just keeps chasing it’s own tail.

The irony here is, that anti-evolutionist dare to presume “authority” to speak on matters of science of which-- it is obvious from the error saturated arguments --a great many simply speak from ignorance.

If that isn’t an accurate example of arrogance and a small mind, then there isn’t one.

Rather than “chuckle”, I am appalled that those who have NOT studied science on a collegiate or professional level, nor are employed professionally as scientist have the hubris to tell SCIENTISTS and everyone else what science is!

If you don’t actually KNOW the science, your opinions about it are not valid.

 

[Della]

coyote:

This dog just keeps chasing it’s own tail.

The irony here is, that anti-evolutionist dare to presume “authority” to speak on matters of science of which-- it is obvious from the error saturated arguments --a great many simply speak from ignorance.

If that isn’t an accurate example of arrogance and a small mind, then there isn’t one.

Rather than “chuckle”, I am appalled that those who have NOT studied science on a collegiate or professional level, nor are employed professionally as scientist have the hubris to tell SCIENTISTS and everyone else what science is!

If you don’t actually KNOW the science, your opinions about it are not valid.

But, I do know the science and accept much of it. I simply don’t accept the whole enchilada as told by die-hard Dawinian evolutionists, and neither do many real scientists. There’s plenty of room for theories about the rise of species out there that are legitimate science. Unfortunately, most people never hear about them because the evolutionists are determined they shouldn’t–especially not in the public school system which they have under their complete sway. And that is the issue here, not who knows more science but who is allowed to ask questions about what we are told. After all, real science is always questioning and never assuming–or at least that is what I learned in my science classes.

 

[Thekla]

Della:

What “scientific authority” does the Church speak with? None that I know of. Jesus never gave the Church authority to speak on matters of science, only on matters of faith and morals.

What authority? The Church has wrestled with the connection between science and faith for centuries yet children who have closed their minds know better? Their “opinion” should be given equal weight?

Vatican astronomers and astro-physicists run the Vatican Observatory in Arizona in conjunction with U of A. I love the fact that the Catholic Church has scientists, some who graduated from MIT, thinking about these things and speaking about evolution from a position of real authority. It’s so refreshing when compared to the “That’s what I believe because that’s what I believe” crowd.

 

[Thekla]

Della:

But, I do know the science and accept much of it. I simply don’t accept the whole enchilada as told by die-hard Dawinian evolutionists, and neither do many real scientists. There’s plenty of room for theories about the rise of species out there that are legitimate science. Unfortunately, most people never hear about them because the evolutionists are determined they shouldn’t–especially not in the public school system which they have under their complete sway. And that is the issue here, not who knows more science but who is allowed to ask questions about what we are told. After all, real science is always questioning and never assuming–or at least that is what I learned in my science classes.

Della, I’m going to agree with a lot of what you said. There are gaps in the evoutionary process and we need scientists to come to a concensus to fill them. However, there are no legitimate scientists who dispute Darwin whole cloth.

In the article, the children in it are likely not to even question evolution “scientifically” because they are so inculcated to a certain way of thinking. The public schools, and many of the Catholic ones, are teaching THE only scientific explanation for the origin of man. There are lots of theories about lots of things, but they are not legitimate scientific theories.

I want my girls and other children to be able to argue from a position of knowledge; a position of strength. I don’t want them willfully choosing to be ignorant about certain things and as parents, I don’t think we should encourage or let them.

 

[Thekla]

coyote:

Bless you Thekla! Bless you.

Watch out for the rotten eggs that are going to be thrown by the anti-science crowd.

And God bless you, as well, coyote. As a Catholic, it’s troubling to see certain faiths encourage their followers to be ignorant and uneducated. Why are people forced to choose between science and faith? We don’t have to explain everything that doesn’t fit in perfectly with science.

As long as we trust that God is the Creator of all things and try to follow what we have been taught to do, is He really going to be mad at us for listening to what scientists tell us about things that have a scientific explanation? When someone dies, I just don’t think He’s going to say, "You lied, you stole, and you cheated, but I really want to talk to you about that Darwin’s Origin of Man thing.
Thekla

 

[MikeWM]

Thekla:

And God bless you, as well, coyote. As a Catholic, it’s troubling to see certain faiths encourage their followers to be ignorant and uneducated. Why are people forced to choose between science and faith? We don’t have to explain everything that doesn’t fit in perfectly with science. As long as we trust that God is the Creator of all things, is He really going to be mad at us for listening to what scientists tell us about things that have a scientific explanation?

Well said

We have nothing to fear from science whatsoever. Our faith is not rooted in science, it is not undermined by science, it is not touched by science. Science only increases our understanding of this wonderful universe. It enhances my faith, not troubles it.

Mike

 

[Della]

Thekla:

Della, I’m going to agree with a lot of what you said. There are gaps in the evoutionary process and we need scientists to come to a concensus to fill them. However, there are no legitimate scientists who dispute Darwin whole cloth.

In the article, the children in it are likely not to even question evolution “scientifically” because they are so inculcated to a certain way of thinking. The public schools, and many of the Catholic ones, are teaching THE only scientific explanation for the origin of man. There are lots of theories about lots of things, but they are not legitimate scientific theories.

I want my girls and other children to be able to argue from a position of knowledge; a position of strength. I don’t want them willfully choosing to be ignorant about certain things and as parents, I don’t think we should encourage or let them.

I agree. What the students in the article were doing wasn’t legitimate exchange of scientific theory but merely denying any evidence they couldn’t explain. That’s not the proper way to explore the natural sciences. However, it is true that the evolutionists have had it all their way for a long time–their theories being taught in most cases as absolute fact, which they aren’t. That should have been said all along but legitimate dissent wasn’t and still isn’t allowed. If you don’t echo back to the teacher just what you’re told you pay for it in low grades, even if your objections are valid, and that simply isn’t right no matter what field of study one is exploring.

 

[gelsbern]

What scared me most in the article was the following line:

In response, the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science is distributing a 24-page guide to teaching the scientific principles behind evolution,** starting in kindergarten**.

If you can’t indoctrinate them when they are older, go to younger more modable minds. This is bogus. Evolution should not be taught to anyone less than a sophomore, and in my opinion, there is enough science that evolution should just be a small short chapter for seniors and let the colleges teach the bulk of the “theory”

We need to take notice of this, and I think action is needed, I can live with intelligent design not being taught in schools, as long as evolution is not taught there either.

 

[robins]

the theory that Mary the mother of Jesus came form an ape or fish pretty much makes her ancestors animals. Which means that Jesus didn’t only become man he became animal too. which means that we aren’t more than the sparrow as the Lord said in the bible. satan was represented by a snake, do you think may be that might have been Adams uncle? may be Adam was an apple? we may have evolved from the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge. plus our Catholic faith doesn’t agree with any darwinning evolution. the Church rejects all theories of evolution that do not reflect the revelations of God. teaching theories of evolution that contradict truths of the Catholic faith represent an attack on the faith itself.
evolution is a false “religion”, you must have faith to believe that it is true. because there is no facts to back it up.
this belief that theory of evolution is acceptable to the Catholic has distroyed a great number of peoples faith and nearly distroyed mine. i have study greatly on this and i know that if the Lord wished us to believe that he would have had Adam name his ancestors when he named the animals. no animals would have been eaten etc… open the brain.

 

[Tedster]

coyote:

Rather than “chuckle”, I am appalled that those who have NOT studied science on a collegiate or professional level, nor are employed professionally as scientist have the hubris to tell SCIENTISTS and everyone else what science is!

If you don’t actually KNOW the science, your opinions about it are not valid.

Don’t presume you know anything about one’s education unless you ask. I have a bachelor’s degree in Mechanical Engineering from a major university. I have studied science on a collegiate and professional level. Now do I have the right to not believe your theory? Sad that you think on the collegiatly educated have the right to do so, or not do so.

I am not here to debate the merits of your theory, that has been done in many posts already. I made a comment on the the statement that claimed “My hope is that the moral and scientific authority with which the Roman Catholic Church speaks spreads to these bastions of empty heads.”

And I still “chuckle” at the arrogance of those who think all that do not believe what they believe is ignorance.

 

[Orogeny]

Tedster:

Don’t presume you know anything about one’s education unless you ask. I have a bachelor’s degree in Mechanical Engineering from a major university.

That wouldn’t happen to be Creighton, would it?

Peace

Tim