The Big Bang Argument for God

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In summary The big bang arguments states all of space-time began from an infinitesimal point beyond which there is no space or time or “physics” since there is no physical sense of “before” such a beginning. The argument is that a “non-physical” intelligent being must therefore be the cause.

Does this argument work?

I’m not sure that it does.
 
In summary The big bang arguments states all of space-time began from an infinitesimal point beyond which there is no space or time or “physics” since there is no physical sense of “before” such a beginning. The argument is that a “non-physical” intelligent being must therefore be the cause.

Does this argument work?

I’m not sure that it does.
Here. I will say that I believe that God created a single cell then let it explode, or created the quantum vacuum and let a quantum explosion create the universe then protects us from a quantum incursion deadly to the universe. The Big Bang argument should keep in mind these things, because it’s possible that God had made pre-Big Bang conditions and the cell, or a quantum vacuum.
 
In summary The big bang arguments states all of space-time began from an infinitesimal point beyond which there is no space or time or “physics” since there is no physical sense of “before” such a beginning. The argument is that a “non-physical” intelligent being must therefore be the cause.

Does this argument work?

I’m not sure that it does.
It works, but you can’t ask the scientist as scientist to say it works because science is not allowed to answer questions about God.

But thank God, there are more avenues to truth than science. So ask the philosopher and he will tell you it’s reasonable to infer a non-physical intelligent being is behind all the intelligible laws of the universe. And there is nothing in science that can prove or disprove that. Pretty much the position Einstein took toward God.
 
In summary The big bang arguments states all of space-time began from an infinitesimal point beyond which there is no space or time or “physics” since there is no physical sense of “before” such a beginning. The argument is that a “non-physical” intelligent being must therefore be the cause.

Does this argument work?

I’m not sure that it does.
Big Bang is just an evidence that our Universe has a beginning. Whether there was any creation before the Bang, we don’t know. But the mere fact that there is a border in the space-time, beyond which we cannot look, by itself implies that our Universe is contingent and not a first cause of itself.
 
Paul Steinhardt claims to have shown the possibility of the cyclic theory of the universe, according to which the expansion and contraction cycles repeat infinitely into the past and future.
science.sciencemag.org/content/296/5572/1436
arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0111030v2
The idea of an expanding and contracting universe has been spoken about for years. Its not a new idea. And it is certainly possible, but then what is it contracting into? Does it change the fact that the universe began from an infinitesimal point. Also a scientist means a potentially infinite number of contractions and expansions and not an actual-infinite. That is of course if his intentions is to have a testable hypothesis and not merely duping you into thinking his theory is scientific.
 
I’ve said this before – I believe in the Big Bang. God said, “Let there be,” and
BANG!
There it was 😃
 
I’ve said this before – I believe in the Big Bang. God said, “Let there be,” and
BANG!
There it was 😃
When we learned this thory in Catholic School, the joke went “God said BANG and the universe began.” Of course…only in a Catholic school can this be said. 😉
 
I find it to be a perfectly reasonable argument. God, the creator, initiated the explosion in the singularity and the universe has been expanding since.

John
 
The Big Bang Argument of the first post doesn’t work.

No matter what kind of universe you can think of, including the ‘expanding and contracting universe’ which is just a universe,
not universe could have existed through an infinite past is it changes which we can clearly see the universe does.
So the argument fails for the reason that the Big Band is not necessarily the absolute beginning,
but nevertheless,
the impossibility of an infinite past proves God.
 
The Big Bang Argument of the first post doesn’t work.

No matter what kind of universe you can think of, including the ‘expanding and contracting universe’ which is just a universe,
not universe could have existed through an infinite past is it changes which we can clearly see the universe does.
So the argument fails for the reason that the Big Band is not necessarily the absolute beginning,
but nevertheless,
the impossibility of an infinite past proves God.
I agree. There is no such thing as an actually infinite number of past events because an actually infinite number is meaningless. Quantities are always finite in extent even if they are potentially infinite. There is no such thing as a quantity that signifies infinity, you can never get there. The problem is that the idea of an infinite quantity implies that it is made up of parts that are finite in extent. But no matter how big the quantity there is no number that is infinite, it is forever finite. It is a meaningless idea.
 
In summary The big bang arguments states all of space-time began from an infinitesimal point beyond which there is no space or time or “physics” since there is no physical sense of “before” such a beginning. The argument is that a “non-physical” intelligent being must therefore be the cause.

Does this argument work?

I’m not sure that it does.
Have you heard of the Kalam Cosmological argument? It goes like this:

P1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
P2) The universe began to exist.
C: Therefore, the universe has a cause.

Now what you have to figure out is what this cause is. Well since the universe is just the collection of all space, time, energy, and matter, the cause which created it can’t be bound by space, time, energy, or matter. Therefore, the cause is spaceless, timeless (or philosophers call eternal), and immaterial. Furthermore, this cause must be extremely powerful to bring an entire universe into being out of nothing. In fact, one might call this cause all-powerful.
 
Have you heard of the Kalam Cosmological argument? It goes like this:

P1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
P2) The universe began to exist.
C: Therefore, the universe has a cause.

Now what you have to figure out is what this cause is. Well since the universe is just the collection of all space, time, energy, and matter, the cause which created it can’t be bound by space, time, energy, or matter. Therefore, the cause is spaceless, timeless (or philosophers call eternal), and immaterial. Furthermore, this cause must be extremely powerful to bring an entire universe into being out of nothing. In fact, one might call this cause all-powerful.
The fallacy is the assumption that the universe began.
 
I know this is supposed to be serious but I find the title to be rather funny. It reminds me of the big band argument for God.
 
The fallacy is the assumption that the universe began.
It is not a fallacy. Since it is logically possible the universe began to exist, and there is scientific evidence and philosophical reasons to suggest that it did. So no fallacious reasoning here.
 
In summary The big bang arguments states all of space-time began from an infinitesimal point beyond which there is no space or time or “physics” since there is no physical sense of “before” such a beginning. The argument is that a “non-physical” intelligent being must therefore be the cause.

Does this argument work?

I’m not sure that it does.
I think you are bogging down on the details. The argument is simple. If the universe had an absolute beginning then it must have been created into existence because Something can not come from nothing. Nothing can only come from nothing. Therefore something had to already exist that was powerful enough to create the universe from nothing. Now one can make an argument that this something is extremely powerful and intelligent. As well as immaterial, timeless, and changeless. The uncaused cause.

Now, the first cause can not be physical material or anything composed of parts that require an explanation for how those parts came together. For then the first cause would be contingent on something else bringing those parts together. Thus, the doctrine of divine simplicity.

In addition, the first cause is the explanation for how physical matter came into being and therefore cannot itself be composed of it, for it, itself would require a cause, and we would then have to look for another cause.
 
It is not a fallacy. Since it is logically possible the universe began to exist, and there is scientific evidence and philosophical reasons to suggest that it did. So no fallacious reasoning here.
You are assuming that the universe had a beginning and was created, which is what you need to prove. According to the cyclical theory, there was no beginning and there is no end to the expansion contraction cycle. A collision of M-Branes in higher dimensions causes the ekpyrotic scenario. Since you can continue to draw energy from gravity continually, there is no violation of conservation of energy when gravitational energy is converted into energy partially responsible for the collision of the M-Branes. Further, the second law of thermodynamics is not violated since excessive entropy can be spread to regions beyond the horizon during periods of dark energy domination.
 
The fallacy is the assumption that the universe began.
So you’re challenging premise 2. You don’t believe the universe began to exist, but rather believe that the universe undergoes an infinite series of expansion and contraction. To explain to others who might not know, on this view the universe expands with a big bang and then eventually collapses in on itself with a “big crunch.” Some speculate that after the big crunch, the universe might expand again in another big bang. Thus, we have an infinite cycle of universes, it goes on forever. Do you have any good reasons to believe in such a model? I think there are, however, good reasons to doubt the legitimacy of the cyclic model.

The cyclic model only succeeds if the density of all the matter in the entire universe is greater than what scientists call “critical density.” Critical density is the value at which the universe is at balance, and expansion is stopped. If the density of matter in the universe is greater than the critical density, then gravity will overpower matter and pull it back in, thus initiating the big crunch process. But if the density of the universe’s matter can’t succeed critical density, then the gravity is not strong enough to pull the matter back in and initiate a big crunch, and so the universe just expands forever.

However, most cosmologists think a big crunch very unlikely, given that most of the matter in the universe is “dark matter,” which has enough mass and gravitational force to keep the universe expanding forever. The truth is, the current evidence we have doesn’t show that there will ever be a big crunch. For instance, the most recent evidence of space expansion shows that the universe isn’t being slowed down by gravity, but rather is accelerating.

But even if the universe could contract and expand again, this does not show that it could have contracted and expanded forever. This is because whenever the universe would collapse and experience a big crunch, there would be an intense build up of disorder (entropy) that would carry over into the new expanding universe. This build up of entropy would have the effect of creating larger and longer big bang expansions each successive cycle. The physicist Duane Dicus explains this by showing that entropy will only “enlarge the cosmic scale from cycle to cycle” which means if we look backwards in time, we’ll notice that each earlier cycle “generates less entropy,” thus showing it would have a smaller cycle time and cycle expansion. This means as one traces the cycles back in time, each expansion becomes smaller and smaller until you come to the one that is infinitely small (or zero). This would be the beginning of the universe.

In fact Stephen Hawking even says on his own website that this entropy build up disproves the cyclic model: “One would expect that the universe would become more disordered each oscillation. It is therefore difficult to see how the universe could have been oscillating for an infinite time.” Furthermore, Hawking’s formulation of singularity theorems with Roger Penrose imply an absolute beginning to the universe. To quote Hawking one more time from, The Nature of Space and Time, singularity theorems “led to the abandonment of attempts (mainly by the Russians) to argue that there was a previous contracting phase and a non-singular bounce into expansion. Instead almost everyone now believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the big bang.”
 
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Tomdstone:
According to the cyclical theory, there was no beginning and there is no end to the expansion contraction cycle. A collision of M-Branes in higher dimensions causes the ekpyrotic scenario. Since you can continue to draw energy from gravity continually, there is no violation of conservation of energy when gravitational energy is converted into energy partially responsible for the collision of the M-Branes. Further, the second law of thermodynamics is not violated since excessive entropy can be spread to regions beyond the horizon during periods of dark energy domination.
Wow. Just wow. That sounds awesome.

Tom, you should write the blurbs on the back of books or the trailers for sci-fi movies (perhaps you do . . .). If a science fiction novel had this sort of description on the back, there’s a good chance that I would buy it.

The science sounds fascinating, although I suspect that my head might explode if I tried to understand it.
 
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