The Canon- by whose authority?

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Tobit…yes…wel…lol.
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The above remark was made by mumof5 in regard to the Book of Tobit… We know that it is a book not accepted by Protestants. According to this it seems like that the CC has had the same list of books since the Council of Rome in 382 although some protestants make the claim that the church had been using the canon for many years before that but no proof is given. As Catholics, we believe it was the Holy Spirit that inspired the Church and that Jesus gave his authority to the Apostles who then passed that authority down to the present Bishops. My question would be: by whose authority did Martin Luther remove some of the Books that had been accepted as canonical for over 1000 years and by whose authority was the KJV written and presently without the books in question? If they had no authority, why do many persist in ignore the 73 books used since the bible was compiled?
 
Hello,

Martin Luther removed the 7 books (some whole, some part) from the Old Testament. He did this under the authority of Martin Luther. The King James Version of the bible was printed by order and under the authority of King James of England.

The primary reasons given for the deletion of the books is not very convincing to me. (weren’t written in Hebrew) The real reason why Martin Luther deleted those books is because they contradicted some of his theological ideas. For example, in 2 Maccabes chapter 12, the idea of purgatory is presented. Martin Luther denied the existence of purgatory and couldn’t have an inspired book that said otherwise.

I hope this helps.
 
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TobyLue:
The above remark was made by mumof5 in regard to the Book of Tobit… We know that it is a book not accepted by Protestants. According to this it seems like that the CC has had the same list of books since the Council of Rome in 382 although some protestants make the claim that the church had been using the canon for many years before that but no proof is given. As Catholics, we believe it was the Holy Spirit that inspired the Church and that Jesus gave his authority to the Apostles who then passed that authority down to the present Bishops. My question would be: by whose authority did Martin Luther remove some of the Books that had been accepted as canonical for over 1000 years and by whose authority was the KJV written and presently without the books in question? If they had no authority, why do many persist in ignore the 73 books used since the bible was compiled?
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Self-imposed authority. The same kind of authority the 10 tribes of Israel used to justify their schism when they broke from Judea and worshipped two golden calves in Samaria.

When the Protestants broke from the “authorized” church, they had to claim authority somewhere else. Soooooooo, they gave the authority to the bible, and then took the authority back again under the guise that their authority was scripturally guarenteed by the final authority… the bible. Get it? It really comes off like a Jackie Mason routine… (Please read the following with an appropriate Jewish accent.)

The Church apostaziced… therefore the church lost its authority… which proves it never had the authority… which proves it belongs to the bible… so I can take the authority from the church… although I have no authority to do so… and I can give it to the bible… so I can take the authority back again… while pretending that I don’t want to… you see the bible gives me authority… from the authority I gave it… so the bible can give me authority without looking like it wants to… so I can take the authority without looking like I want it!

Manechewitz!

Thal59
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the original KJV did have the deutercanonical books in them.
 
When my husband was looking this up the other day we found this source handy, esp. because it graphically includes the Orthodox and Judaic traditional books.

My understanding is that Luther adopted, quite conveniently, the Old Testament that was revised by Jewish council around 400 to remove references to the Messiah that made them uncomfortable in the light of all these new Christians running about.
 
We know for a fact that Jesus taught from the Deuterocanonical texts, they were also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

If it was good enough for JC it’s good enough for me!
 
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JMJ_coder:
Martin Luther removed the 7 books (some whole, some part) from the Old Testament. He did this under the authority of Martin Luther.
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Very cleverly put. 😛
 
Now of course you realize the Ethiopian Orthodox have 81 books in their canon as I recall. How do I know for sure that both Catholics and Protestants have not removed 8 books from the canon?
 
Early Church history documents this quite adequately. There has been much scholarship on how the canon that is used by the Church was compiled; the reasoning, etc. shows that the old Testament as it is used by the Church was the one that Jesus and the first Christians were familiar with and used. I even saw a pretty good documentary on it on the History Channel called “Banned from the Bible” about books from the New Testament, including the Shepherd of Hermas and others that are included in the Ethopian canon. It’s an interesting story, but the New Testament is a different issue than the Old Testament.

You can read all those books yourself if you like!
 
Scott, you are right. The original KJV had the deutorocanicals in it. Every time I have presented that fact to a protestant claiming the “church added them at the Council of Trent”, it is met with a resounding silence and change of subject.
 
So again, I ask especially if there are any KJV onlys here. By whose authority do you believe that the KJV is the true bible and that the true bible only has 66 books? Please dont reply “By the Holy Spirit” Because if you do, and you believe in Sola Scriptura, then back it up by pointing to scripture to back up your claim.
Please lets hear from the non-Catholics…

God Bless.
 
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