The Church has got to be kidding on this one, right?

[setter]

This is the oft reaction I have encountered by many Catholics when confronted with or know of someone confronted with the moral option of marital continence until the woman is past her childbearing years. The particular issue of a couple facing potentially serious/lethal medical complications associated with future pregnancy seems to be one that results in an endless search for a moral “medical exception” clause and almost accusatory appeal to a more “reasonable” and compassionate option/solution in opposition to clear Church teaching.

I notice that for many folks, moral imperatives get displaced and discarded in favor of what they consider what is reasonable and humanly possible. The rationalizations often tangent to: God would not expect this of any couple; accusation of rigid adherence to “the letter of the law”; a compassionate “solution” for the sake of marriage stability that presents as akin to choosing between the lesser of two evils; … I observe the unfortunate response by many Catholics of denial, open rationalizations, self-justification, over focus on the compassion of God to the exclusion of His justice. I wonder if any of these folks have a similar response as that of the young rich man in the gospel when told by Jesus what was yet required of him to be perfect in following Him, “When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, …”.

It seems that many of these folks get turned off by and offended by those who present authoritative Church teaching. I am seeking suggestions as how to most effectively offer a compassionate and uncompromising response to those who would advise others or themselves would commit such a grave offense as choosing to introduce contraceptive intercourse, via either direct sterilization or ABC methods, when confronted with the demands of faithful discipleship to Christ. For those folks who disagree with the Church on this issue, I would appreciate your thoughts likewise.

See these AAA Apologist responses for situation examples:

*Are there exceptions to the ban on sterilization? *

Question: If a woman had a condition in which her doctor told her she should not have any more children due to the high possibility of her uterus rupturing, would tubal ligation be permitted?​

Apologist Answer: No, there are no exceptions to the Church’s ban on direct sterilization. A woman in such a situation is permitted to use Natural Family Planning (NFP), which is highly effective when used properly, and can contact the Couple to Couple League for information on how to use NFP in its safest, most effective manner. She and her husband are also free to choose complete abstinence during the remainder of her fertile years if they are unwilling to take any chances that she might become pregnant.

---

*Michelle Arnold
Catholic Answers Apologist *

*Can I get a vasectomy? *

Question:My wife has some medical problems which would endanger her health with another child. We have used NFP before, but due to her unusual female problems, we had another child. Her menstrual cycle is not consistent. We have talked long and hard about this issue. I don’t think it would be a mortal sin to have a vasectomy. I know that it’s a moral teaching of the Church. I’m having a hard time dealing with this issue. What would be the Church position on my individual situation?​

Apologist Answer: I understand that you have a legitimate reason to avoid pregnancy. But a vasectomy for contraceptive purposes is evil. The Catechism, quoting Humanae Vitae, states, “‘every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible’ is intrinsically evil” (CCC 2370). The Catechism is also clear that “one may never do evil so that good may result from it” (CCC 1789). Therefore, a vasectomy is not an option.

There are moral ways to avoid pregnancy. Natural Family Planning (NFP) may be an option if your wife’s menstrual cycle can be medically regulated. Practiced correctly NFP is over 99% effective. If your wife’s menstrual cycle cannot be medically regulated and you cannot accept any risk of pregnancy then your only option may be abstinence. This may be a heavy cross to bear but you may have no other moral choice.

---

*Jim Blackburn
Catholic Answers Apologist *

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

When I got married, our mentor couple told us that they had a tubal after getting a letter from a doctor and taking it to three priests. Being a poorly catechised Catholic, I thought that was the procedure for getting permission for a sterilization.

Imagine my embarrassment when at a prolife breakfast, I raised my hand and asked the Vicar General of the Archdiocese about it. It was confirmed that there are no cases where sterilization is morally permitted.

There is ignorance breeding ignorance. We need to form our young people better so they are equipped to be strong when life gets difficult. I have good friends who abstained for almost a year when they couldn’t take even one chance that a pregnancy would occur. What a beautiful martyrdom!

Everyone I know knows which priests you can go to for “permission.” I fear for those priests trusted with souls. How they will tremble at their judgements. We should pray fervently for them.

 

[Seatuck]

Written Q&A style Apologetics isn’t meant to convey more than a brief relation of church teaching. Sometimes it seems harsh. The faithful are supposed to bolster each other up and proper pastoral counseling from Priests should be as compassionate as possible when advising people in such difficult circumstances.

At some point, when a person realizes that there is not budging on the truth they make a decision to pick up their cross and unite thier sufferings to Christ or they choose a different path.

If time allows of course more options and suggestions such as the ones the participants on this board have gone into at lenth are offered in as compassionate a manner as the written word allows.

Such as giving resources for NFP. NFP works well with irregular cycles to achieve pregnancy and also to prevent pregnancy. Sometimes people need encouragement. Sometimes they are gonna do what they are gonna do.

 

[Linnyo]

JMJ Theresa:

When I got married, our mentor couple told us that they had a tubal after getting a letter from a doctor and taking it to three priests. Being a poorly catechised Catholic, I thought that was the procedure for getting permission for a sterilization.

Imagine my embarrassment when at a prolife breakfast, I raised my hand and asked the Vicar General of the Archdiocese about it. It was confirmed that there are no cases where sterilization is morally permitted.

There is ignorance breeding ignorance. We need to form our young people better so they are equipped to be strong when life gets difficult. I have good friends who abstained for almost a year when they couldn’t take even one chance that a pregnancy would occur. What a beautiful martyrdom!

Everyone I know knows which priests you can go to for “permission.” I fear for those priests trusted with souls. How they will tremble at their judgements. We should pray fervently for them.

Don’t be ridiculous. It is not wrong of these priests to give permission for a woman to help her health. The only wrong is the church making such a rule in the first place! Well seeing the church is run by men who are unlikely to ever experience such difficulties. They will be the ones answerable for the suffering of the women who think they are doing the will of God by not taking medical advice!

 

[paramedicgirl]

Linnyo:

Don’t be ridiculous. It is not wrong of these priests to give permission for a woman to help her health. The only wrong is the church making such a rule in the first place! Well seeing the church is run by men who are unlikely to ever experience such difficulties. They will be the ones answerable for the suffering of the women who think they are doing the will of God by not taking medical advice!

You are not speaking for the Church. The Church teaching is clear on this point. We cannot change the teachings or the doctrines of the Church just because we don’t find them convenient.

 

[Linnyo]

paramedicgirl:

You are not speaking for the Church. The Church teaching is clear on this point. We cannot change the teachings or the doctrines of the Church just because we don’t find them convenient.

Who is ‘we’?
Convenience has little to do with it. Common sense prevails in my household and we worship God !

 

[Seatuck]

Common sense says if you don’t want to get pregnant then don’t have sex. That’s more common sense than have an operation.

 

[Linnyo]

Seatuck:

Common sense says if you don’t want to get pregnant then don’t have sex. That’s more common sense than have an operation.

you’ve missed the point. some people need sterilised for health reasons not to prevent pregnancy. abstinence in marraige is also a sin.

 

[john_ennis]

Linnyo:

. abstinence in marraige is also a sin.

Well.
So much for “common sense prevailing.”

Whose infallible interpretation of Scripture is convincing you that abstinence in marriage is a sin?

Peace.
John

 

[setter]

Linnyo:

Who is ‘we’?
Convenience has little to do with it. Common sense prevails **in my household and we worship God ** !

But do you serve and obey God as the Church teaches in all aspects of faith and morals? How do you reconcile this as a RC? How do you defend holding a positon that goes against clear Church teaching? I ask these questions as I am trying to understand your position, which seems an untenable position to hold.

I do not believe that these old testament patriarchs were appealing to common sense when challenging and exhorting God’s people to decisiveness over which God/god that they will choose to serve:

"Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse: the **blessing, if you obey ** the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you this day,” Deuteronomy 11: 26-28

“And if you be unwilling to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, …but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

Linnyo:

Don’t be ridiculous. It is not wrong of these priests to give permission for a woman to help her health. The only wrong is the church making such a rule in the first place! Well seeing the church is run by men who are unlikely to ever experience such difficulties. They will be the ones answerable for the suffering of the women who think they are doing the will of God by not taking medical advice!

I hope the priests I know will be more concerned about my soul than making my life easier.

If abstinence in marriage is a sin, then it is impossible that Mary was sinless. Unless, you think Mary was not ever Virgin?

I think we have fallen into the temptation of keeping our eyes on earth instead of looking to Heaven.

 

[snoopy]

If a woman’s uterus is in danger of rupturing, then it is worn out. If it is worn out then she should have a hysterectomy. I can see no sin there. Good grief, if a woman’s appendix is ready to rupture, then it should be removed also. No one will dispute removal of an appendix, why should the uterus be any different.

 

[Linnyo]

setter:

But do you serve and obey God as the Church teaches in all aspects of faith and morals? How do you reconcile this as a RC? How do you defend holding a positon that goes against clear Church teaching? I ask these questions as I am trying to understand your position, which seems an untenable position to hold.

I do not believe that these old testament patriarchs were appealing to common sense when challenging and exhorting God’s people to decisiveness over which God/god that they will choose to serve:

"Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse: the **blessing, if you obey ** the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you this day,” Deuteronomy 11: 26-28

“And if you be unwilling to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, …but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

In answer to your first question ‘yes we do’ with regards to this thread. . Second question ’ it reconciles itself.’ Third - God is a good God, a kind God and in the Bible he demonstrated great mercy. He still demonstrates mercy and will always even if a woman is sterilised.

 

[rayne89]

Linnyo:

Don’t be ridiculous. It is not wrong of these priests to give permission for a woman to help her health. The only wrong is the church making such a rule in the first place! Well seeing the church is run by men who are unlikely to ever experience such difficulties. They will be the ones answerable for the suffering of the women who think they are doing the will of God by not taking medical advice!

As a woman whom will die if I become pregnant again I assure you I’m not suffering by following the authority of Christ’s Church. I use NFP and have for nine years. Our marriage has been incredably blessed since we fully embraced the churches teaching and decided to place our trust in God.

I will not say to God I know this is what your church demands of me but I can not trust you in this matter, after all my health and life are at stake. If by following NFP with very conservative standards as is allowed in my circumstance and I get pregnant the God’s will be done.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Linnyo:

Who is ‘we’?
Convenience has little to do with it. Common sense prevails in my household and we worship God !

“We” is the people, or body of the Catholic Church. If we are disobedient to Rome, then we aren’t following the teachings of the Catholic Church. It’s not a buffet religion, where we pick and choose what looks good to us.

 

[Linnyo]

rayne89:

As a woman whom will die if I become pregnant again I assure you I’m not suffering by following the authority of Christ’s Church. I use NFP and have for nine years. Our marriage has been incredably blessed since we fully embraced the churches teaching and decided to place our trust in God.

I will not say to God I know this is what your church demands of me but I can not trust you in this matter, after all my health and life are at stake. If by following NFP with very conservative standards as is allowed in my circumstance and I get pregnant the God’s will be done.

That’s your choice. Good luck when you hit the menopuse!

 

[paramedicgirl]

rayne89:

As a woman whom will die if I become pregnant again I assure you I’m not suffering by following the authority of Christ’s Church. I use NFP and have for nine years. Our marriage has been incredably blessed since we fully embraced the churches teaching and decided to place our trust in God.

I will not say to God I know this is what your church demands of me but I can not trust you in this matter, after all my health and life are at stake. If by following NFP with very conservative standards as is allowed in my circumstance and I get pregnant the God’s will be done.

Bless you, rayne! You set a good example for Catholic women.

 

[setter]

Linnyo:

In answer to your first question ‘yes we do’ with regards to this thread. . Second question ’ it reconciles itself.’ Third - God is a good God, a kind God and in the Bible he demonstrated great mercy. He still demonstrates mercy and will always even if a woman is sterilised.

Thank you for your response. In turn I offer you this Catechism of the Catholic Church citation. I would appreciate any thoughtful response on your part as to whether you recognize your position as one of presuming the mercy of God while consciously wavering on, rejecting clear Church teaching in matters of faith and morals:

There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), **or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit). ** (CCC 2092)

 

[Linnyo]

setter:

Thank you for your response. In turn I offer you this Catechism of the Catholic Church citation. I would appreciate any thoughtful response on your part as to whether you recognize your position as one of presuming the mercy of God while consciously wavering on, rejecting clear Church teaching in matters of faith and morals:

Interesting quote but if I depended upon myself I would land up in Hell as would we all. God sacrificed His son, Jesus, so that all who believe in Him will have eternal life. He is indeed a merciful God. He has taken my sin and made me as new.

 

[kage_ar]

Linnyo

Please respond to post # 11 regarding your claim that it is a sin to abstain in marriage.