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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Have you noticed that people of faith and people without faith often have different personality traits? What would be the most distinguishing trait that you have noticed?
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Bradski
Guest
Skepticism.
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rose_kelly
Guest
Stubbornness.
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mikekle
Guest
IDk… some of the nicest, kindest people I know, are ones who are living lives without God in it, they just do not desire a relationship with their creator as people of faith do. Its also not that they do not believe in a God, many do.
On the other hand, some of the people I see every week at mass, who claim to be catholic, are the rudest, most unfriendly people I have ever met, so it seems to me, people are just different in these ways.
On the other hand, some of the people I see every week at mass, who claim to be catholic, are the rudest, most unfriendly people I have ever met, so it seems to me, people are just different in these ways.
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Upgrade25
Guest
I’d argue that the ones with strongest faith went through skepticism or doubts. It’s good to critically analyze your faith, even if it hurts to do so.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
That was certainly my experience on the journey to faith.
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Bradski
Guest
As Socrates said: ‘The unexamined life is not worth living’.
A touch of hyperbole perhaps, but we know what he meant.
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puzzledtoo
Guest
Don’t we all have faith? The “believer” of any revealed religion has faith there is a god or gods. Those such as Buddhists have faith there is no god and that there are many rebirths. Atheists have “faith” that there is no such being as god and agnostics have “faith” that there is no way to prove there is or isn’t a god or gods. These are all essentially forms of faith aren’t they?
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Yes, in the sense that one commits to one of these as the ultimate ground of truth. But some of these faiths seem to require more “faith” than others. Agnosticism seems to require just one thing about truth: a kind of grinding neutrality about any of the ultimate axioms for living the good life. The religious faith of the Christian type involves more: the assent to many principles of morality and the spiritual life, not to mention assent to the conviction that it is possible to know truth, and to know it in abundance. In that sense the Christian faith requires more “faith” than the faith of agnosticism which, in its purest form, must doubt itself and resolve its doubts by turning down the path toward certainty of some kind or another.
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alphawoman
Guest
Childlike trust. Humility.
An intellectually rigorous treatment of religion only takes us so far. The intellect, though strong, is weaker than the heart. Trust and humility let us take the leap where intellect alone is insufficient.
An intellectually rigorous treatment of religion only takes us so far. The intellect, though strong, is weaker than the heart. Trust and humility let us take the leap where intellect alone is insufficient.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Exactly why Jesus said to Thomas it was better to have not seen and believed than to have believed only because you saw. He anticipated in that sentence the depth of the view that faith requires a trusting heart, whereas skepticism requires a proven theorem.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
I think faith begins with the mindset of wonder. Wonder is tested by philosophy. What you have left, if faith passes the test of philosophy, is the mindset of resurrected wonder.
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puzzledtoo
Guest
Being new to considering myself as an agnostic I find it difficult to see myself as neutral or sitting on a fence by saying that I believe we can’t know definitively whether god exists or not. I’ve always believed we and everything around us was and is created so I guess that makes me an agnostic theist of sorts.
I’m unsure as to what exactly the “grinding neutrality about any of the axioms for living the good life.” means. I believe it’s possible for each of us to know Truth and know it in abundance. Eventually. But we have to be actively seeking that Truth and if we think we already know it then we are not seeking any longer so some of us find the Truth or the Truth finds us sooner rather than later.
As for personality traits I guess maybe being comfortable, that is if being comfortable is a personality trait (not sure). “Believers” are comfortable with certainty of a superior being. Atheists are comfortable with certainty there is no superior being, and agnostics are comfortable with uncertainty. These are not meant to be blanket statements for these groups as we all know atheists have become believers just as believers have become atheists and agnostics, therefore not all are always comfortable with where they(we)are at on the journey.
Hope some of this makes sense as it always sounds better in my head than verbally or written down.
I’m unsure as to what exactly the “grinding neutrality about any of the axioms for living the good life.” means. I believe it’s possible for each of us to know Truth and know it in abundance. Eventually. But we have to be actively seeking that Truth and if we think we already know it then we are not seeking any longer so some of us find the Truth or the Truth finds us sooner rather than later.
As for personality traits I guess maybe being comfortable, that is if being comfortable is a personality trait (not sure). “Believers” are comfortable with certainty of a superior being. Atheists are comfortable with certainty there is no superior being, and agnostics are comfortable with uncertainty. These are not meant to be blanket statements for these groups as we all know atheists have become believers just as believers have become atheists and agnostics, therefore not all are always comfortable with where they(we)are at on the journey.
Hope some of this makes sense as it always sounds better in my head than verbally or written down.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Well, to name just one of those “grinding neutralities” I would refer you to moral and intellectual relativism, which I think in many (though certainly not all instances) leads some people to be skeptical of knowing very much with comfortable certainty. I refer you to the skeptic as one who is most often skeptical about everything but his own skepticism. Such skeptics fight fiercely for their fundamental axiom of truth which I find morally and intellectually debilitating. Yes, certainly some skeptics do not think they have sunk into intellectual and moral debilitation … at least until they come to their senses sooner or later as hopefully they all may with God’s help.
Christ has assured us that we can know the truth, that we can know it in abundance, and that he that Abundant Truth.
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