The Great Commandment and mortal sin

[opusAquinas]

The Great Commandment according to the Gospel of St. Matthew is to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind. And to love your neighbor as yourself.

If you break the 10 Commandments you can go to confession and you can be absolved of your mortal sin by the priest. However, if you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind and you go to confession as soon as the priest absolves you of your mortal sin you are still in a state of mortal sin! Because you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind!

If you don’t know what the Great Commandment is then you are not in a state of mortal sin because you don’t know the Great Commandment. Just like some people don’t know it’s a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday but once they find out they’ll be in a state of mortal sin if they miss mass on Sunday! It’s the same thing! However I guess is a good strategy not to know your faith not to know what Commandments you need to follow-that’s quite ironic don’t you think?

 

[LethalMouse]

I’d submit here there are two logical ways to be in this sin:

1. True lack of love lucifer style at which point confession is mute… being pro God catholic is mute etc…
2. Mentally incapable for one of many reasons. Which I think is the most prevelant reason… I hope lol.

Number 2 is interesting because basically if you can truly do the full love of God, you won’t have an issue with sin. (Mortal sins anyway)

 

[opusAquinas]

I’d submit here there are two logical ways to be in this sin:

1. True lack of love lucifer style at which point confession is mute… being pro God catholic is mute etc…
2. Mentally incapable for one of many reasons. Which I think is the most prevelant reason… I hope lol.

Number 2 is interesting because basically if you can truly do the full love of God, you won’t have an issue with sin. (Mortal sins anyway)

Your post reminds me of Saints claiming that lukewarm Catholics can end up in hell… Do you think this is what they mean? Because they broke the Great Commandment? Then that leads to my other point that if a baptized Catholic never heard of the Great Commandment they wouldn’t be committing any sin because they don’t know it so I guess that’s why nobody should read the Bible! LOL.

 

[LethalMouse]

Your post reminds me of Saints claiming that lukewarm Catholics can end up in hell… Do you think this is what they mean? Because they broke the Great Commandment? Then that leads to my other point that if a baptized Catholic never heard of the Great Commandment they wouldn’t be committing any sin because they don’t know it so I guess that’s why nobody should read the Bible! LOL.

Ignorance is tricky, we percieve the obviously mentally habdicapped as such. So if they can never grasp a concept we say they are innocebt of mortal sin.

How many “normal” people do you know with mental issues? Denial, habits, addictions etc…

Now that I made you realize how many people are mentally handicapped, does “knowing of” the great commandment really equal “knowing” it?

I know a “good” catholic who believes in following God but cannot mentally fully concieve how to love Him. I doubt this is a straight away ticket to hell, there are many reasons invovled for the inability to fully percieve love.

I honestly can say these very forums show how hard it is for even very good catholics to love God. Fear of hell trumping love for God hands down. But truly a love of God even incomplete would begin to wash away the ability to sin and make the fear of hell not a thing… even if you were hellbound.

 

[opusAquinas]

Ignorance is tricky, we percieve the obviously mentally habdicapped as such. So if they can never grasp a concept we say they are innocebt of mortal sin.

How many “normal” people do you know with mental issues? Denial, habits, addictions etc…

Now that I made you realize how many people are mentally handicapped, does “knowing of” the great commandment really equal “knowing” it?

I know a “good” catholic who believes in following God but cannot mentally fully concieve how to love Him. I doubt this is a straight away ticket to hell, there are many reasons invovled for the inability to fully percieve love.

I honestly can say these very forums show how hard it is for even very good catholics to love God. Fear of hell trumping love for God hands down. But truly a love of God even incomplete would begin to wash away the ability to sin and make the fear of hell not a thing… even if you were hellbound.

This is an issue of culpability. I think you have to try to figure out what Jesus meant when he said you must love God with all your heart soul mind and strength to enter heaven. Love is an act of the will. Are you willing to die for Jesus? Not because you’re afraid of going to hell so much as because you will the good of Jesus for the sake of Jesus. I think that’s the criteria but many people do not fit that criteria. So it was better if they never knew the Great Commandment just like it’s probably best that people don’t know that it’s a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday. But of course trying to intentionally be ignorant may still make you responsible? Lots of people try not to tell other people about the Great commandment or about it being a sin to miss mass on Sunday just for this reason.

 

[LethalMouse]

This is an issue of culpability. I think you have to try to figure out what Jesus meant when he said you must love God with all your heart soul mind and strength to enter heaven. Love is an act of the will. Are you willing to die for Jesus? Not because you’re afraid of going to hell so much as because you will the good of Jesus for the sake of Jesus. I think that’s the criteria but many people do not fit that criteria**. So it was better if they never knew the Great Commandment** just like it’s probably best that people don’t know that it’s a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday. But of course trying to intentionally be ignorant may still make you responsible? Lots of people try not to tell other people about the Great commandment or about it being a sin to miss mass on Sunday just for this reason.

To me it is the only one that matters… for me when I had found the right aspects of love even if mildly incomplete, I learned that I can’t turn away from God again. Even if my residual sins were to land me in hell, I fear hell less than imparting the pain of my turned back on God… in fact for me at that moment, I no longer had the capacity to fear hell even when I would rate the love at maybe 75%…Hell became irrelevant.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Your post reminds me of Saints claiming that lukewarm Catholics can end up in hell… Do you think this is what they mean? Because they broke the Great Commandment? Then that leads to my other point that if a baptized Catholic never heard of the Great Commandment they wouldn’t be committing any sin because they don’t know it so I guess that’s why nobody should read the Bible! LOL.

I think anyone who says that can end up in hell. We are not to judge others. And further, we are not to say anyone at all is in hell. Granted, they did not say a specific person is in hell, but I think this is overstepping. No one knows another’s heart but God.

 

[opusAquinas]

I think anyone who says that can end up in hell. We are not to judge others. And further, we are not to say anyone at all is in hell. Granted, they did not say a specific person is in hell, but I think this is overstepping. No one knows another’s heart but God.

Often we don’t tell people that missing mass is a mortal sin because if they are ignorant they may still be saved. So to it seems that “neglecting” to tell people about the Great Commandment may help them not commit that mortal sin because they were ignorant of it. Remember a mortal sin requires full knowledge, full consent and grave matter. If they have no knowledge then it’s a venial sin.

So maybe people shouldn’t read the Bible because If they do they have more knowledge of what mortal sins are. So they no longer have the excuse of ignorance.

I guess if you really want to save souls you don’t want to tell them about what are mortal sins?

But God wants people to go to heaven not because they’re afraid of going to hell but because they love God!

So we should be telling people about the Great Commandment. We as Catholics should inform other people that missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. It is clearly what God wants us to do. However we don’t have to do it. We may just be interested in saving souls so we may leave people in their ignorance in order to save them.

 

[opusAquinas]

To me it is the only one that matters… for me when I had found the right aspects of love even if mildly incomplete, I learned that I can’t turn away from God again. Even if my residual sins were to land me in hell, I fear hell less than imparting the pain of my turned back on God… in fact for me at that moment, I no longer had the capacity to fear hell even when I would rate the love at maybe 75%…Hell became irrelevant.

If we love God we don’t want to be separated from God. We realize how awful, perverted and empty everything is without God. We realize that we want good things for God because God is all good. In other words, we will the good of the other for the sake of the other. And that is love as defined in the Catholic Catechism.

The desire to glorify God is loving God. The desire to die for God and to do whatever God wants is loving God because we know God is all good: merciful, righteous and holy.

 

[LethalMouse]

If we love God we don’t want to be separated from God. We realize how awful, perverted and empty everything is without God. We realize that we want good things for God because God is all good. In other words, we will the good of the other for the sake of the other. And that is love as defined in the Catholic Catechism.

The desire to glorify God is loving God. The desire to die for God and to do whatever God wants is loving God because we know God is all good: merciful, righteous and holy.

Basically what I was saying

 

[o_mlly]

The Great Commandment according to the Gospel of St. Matthew is to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind. And to love your neighbor as yourself.

…

“Love God and do as you please.” St. Augustine

 

[ffg]

I don’t think there are too many people in this world that can claim a perfect score to the great commandment.

Of those people, I don’t think we would see them claim such or even consider it.

As awareness of sinfulness grows, and with it a desire to be clean, it doesn’t lead to pride.

There would not be a case where walking out of confession (understanding sinfulness to some degree, just by being in the box) would be the action that triggers a mortal sin.

Looking at the big picture, we are dealing with relationship here, relationships don’t grow deep on a whim for us (in our nature).

God knows this, he made us this way, hence we have this thing called ‘time’.

Take care,

Mike

 

[opusAquinas]

I don’t think there are too many people in this world that can claim a perfect score to the great commandment.

Of those people, I don’t think we would see them claim such or even consider it.

As awareness of sinfulness grows, and with it a desire to be clean, it doesn’t lead to pride.

There would not be a case where walking out of confession (understanding sinfulness to some degree, just by being in the box) would be the action that triggers a mortal sin.

Looking at the big picture, we are dealing with relationship here, relationships don’t grow deep on a whim for us (in our nature).

God knows this, he made us this way, hence we have this thing called ‘time’.

Take care,

Mike

Faith in Jesus Christ is a gift. Loving God is a gift. As our Lord Jesus Christ indicated you should be glad that your name is written in the book of life and not for the gifts of healing or exorcism. Pelagianism is a heresy after all too. Salvation is a gift. Efficient grace is a gift. Predestination is a gift. I suppose the capacity to love is a gift. The Blessed Virgin Mary loving Jesus the most and most perfectly. Everyone love’s according to their gifts- “with all your heart and soul” is different per person.
Hopefully we all have the time to figure that out but that’s not going to happen because many choose the broad road which is the one of not loving God and not just failing to make it to confession in mortal sin before dying.
So it might be a good idea not to tell people what are mortal sins? And it’s best to focus on God’s mercy.

 

[Vico]

The Great Commandment according to the Gospel of St. Matthew is to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind. And to love your neighbor as yourself.

If you break the 10 Commandments you can go to confession and you can be absolved of your mortal sin by the priest. However, if you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind and you go to confession as soon as the priest absolves you of your mortal sin you are still in a state of mortal sin! Because you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind!

If you don’t know what the Great Commandment is then you are not in a state of mortal sin because you don’t know the Great Commandment. Just like some people don’t know it’s a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday but once they find out they’ll be in a state of mortal sin if they miss mass on Sunday! It’s the same thing! However I guess is a good strategy not to know your faith not to know what Commandments you need to follow-that’s quite ironic don’t you think?

That is too simple. In addition to gravity, it has to be willful or willfully negligent to be mortal.

 

[opusAquinas]

That is too simple. In addition to gravity, it has to be willful or willfully negligent to be mortal.

My other post states a mortal sin requires full knowledge, full consent and grave matter. Some people just don’t want to love Jesus. They hate Jesus. Our Lord said the world hated Him.

Also, one of the points of this thread is whether it is a good idea not to inform others of what are required of people as Catholics - whether God wants us to? Why would God object since in mercy we are not informing others of their obligations so they won’t fail? But God would want others to know?

 

[Vico]

My other post states a mortal sin requires full knowledge, full consent and grave matter.

Oh, post #8. Also it is knowledge of the moral character of the act or omission, as learned from the Church (even when one does not agree), or from one’s conscience. It is even possible to commit a grave sin by mistake, for example stealing something of little value, but thought to be of great value, which expresses a great lack of charity.

 

[ffg]

Faith in Jesus Christ is a gift. Loving God is a gift. As our Lord Jesus Christ indicated you should be glad that your name is written in the book of life and not for the gifts of healing or exorcism. Pelagianism is a heresy after all too. Salvation is a gift. Efficient grace is a gift. Predestination is a gift. I suppose the capacity to love is a gift. The Blessed Virgin Mary loving Jesus the most and most perfectly. Everyone love’s according to their gifts- “with all your heart and soul” is different per person.
Hopefully we all have the time to figure that out but that’s not going to happen because many choose the broad road which is the one of not loving God and not just failing to make it to confession in mortal sin before dying.
So it might be a good idea not to tell people what are mortal sins? And it’s best to focus on God’s mercy.

Nice list of gifts. I’ll add one - Life, and all that comes with it that is from God, is a gift.

You wrote in your first -

"However, if you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind and you go to confession as soon as the priest absolves you of your mortal sin you are still in a state of mortal sin! Because you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind! "

Then you wrote above -

“So it might be a good idea not to tell people what are mortal sins?”

Perhaps you meant to hit the quote button on post #1? (sure that would be talking to yourself, but maybe that’s a thing people do, I don’t know)

You seem to be the one telling people what IS a mortal sin, considering your example.

I responded to your first countering simply that walking out of confession with a clean soul is **not **a sin, especially a mortal one.

Then linking the Great Commandment through a relationship building path. In other words, time is generally needed to build up to loving God as the Great Commandment describes. How great is that, because we have time! Quite ironic.

Perhaps to cover for the extreme, I could have noted that walking into a confessional and cursing out the priest and walking out, would be an exception to the logic I laid out at first in this thread.

Take care,

Mike

 

[opusAquinas]

Nice list of gifts. I’ll add one - Life, and all that comes with it that is from God, is a gift.

You wrote in your first -

"However, if you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind and you go to confession as soon as the priest absolves you of your mortal sin you are still in a state of mortal sin! Because you don’t love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind! "

Then you wrote above -

“So it might be a good idea not to tell people what are mortal sins?”

Perhaps you meant to hit the quote button on post #1? (sure that would be talking to yourself, but maybe that’s a thing people do, I don’t know)

You seem to be the one telling people what IS a mortal sin, considering your example.

I responded to your first countering simply that walking out of confession with a clean soul is **not **a sin, especially a mortal one.

Then linking the Great Commandment through a relationship building path. In other words, time is generally needed to build up to loving God as the Great Commandment describes. How great is that, because we have time! Quite ironic.

Perhaps to cover for the extreme, I could have noted that walking into a confessional and cursing out the priest and walking out, would be an exception to the logic I laid out at first in this thread.

Take care,

Mike

It is a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday. But if you don’t know then it ain’t. Should we not tell people that it is a mortal sin so they can’t commit what they don’t know is a mortal sin? That was my question.

 

[opusAquinas]

Oh, post #8. Also it is knowledge of the moral character of the act or omission, as learned from the Church (even when one does not agree), or from one’s conscience. It is even possible to commit a grave sin by mistake, for example stealing something of little value, but thought to be of great value, which expresses a great lack of charity.

Then it is venial I think. I was just wondering if it is a good idea not to tell people what is a mortal sin so it’d stay venial.

 

[Vico]

Then it is venial I think. I was just wondering if it is a good idea not to tell people what is a mortal sin so it’d stay venial.

Since intention to sin is also sin, stealing something of little value, but thought to be of great value, which expresses a great lack of charity, could be a mortal sin. And then stealing something of great value, but thought to be of little value.

Baltimore Catechism No.4:

**56 Q. How many things are necessary to make a sin mortal? ** A. To make a sin mortal three things are necessary: a grievous matter, sufficient reflection, and full consent of the will.

“Grievous matter.” To steal is a sin. Now, if you steal only a pin the act of stealing in that case could not be a mortal sin, because the “matter,” namely, the stealing of an ordinary pin, is not grievous. But suppose it was a diamond pin of great value, then it would surely be “grievous matter.”

“Sufficient reflection,” that is, you must know what you are doing at the time you do it. For example, suppose while you stole the diamond pin you thought you were stealing a pin with a small piece of glass, of little value, you would not have sufficient reflection and would not commit a mortal sin till you found out that what you had stolen was a valuable diamond; if you continued to keep it after learning your mistake, you would surely commit a mortal sin.

“Full consent.” Suppose you were shooting at a target and accidentally killed a man: you would not have the sin of murder, because you did not will or wish to kill a man.

Therefore three things are necessary that your act may be a mortal sin: (1) The act you do must be bad, and sufficiently important; (2) You must reflect that you are doing it, and know that it is wrong; (3) You must do it freely, deliberately, and willfully.
**57 Q. What is venial sin? ** A. Venial sin is a slight offense against the law of God in matters of less importance, or in matters of great importance it is an offense committed without sufficient reflection or full consent of the will.

“Slight,” that is, a small offense or fault; called “venial,” not because it is not a sin, but because God pardons it more willingly or easily than He does a mortal sin. “Less importance,” like stealing an ordinary, common pin. “Great importance,” like stealing a diamond pin. Without “reflection” or “consent,” when you did not know it was a diamond and did not intend to steal a diamond.