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Louemma
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Does the Catholic Faith hold to the doctrine of “The Catching Away,The Rapture?”
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regression
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Joe_5859
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No. The Rapture is a novel theological hypothesis (less than 200 years old) and contradicts Catholic teaching on eschatology (the end times).
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edjco
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You may be interested in reading “Rapture” by David Currie. Currie uses Scripture to utterly destroy the argument for a pre-tribulation rapture.
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Louemma
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Thank You all for the information.
There is scripture supporting the catching away.I will check out the links and information posted here.
For those that do believe the catching away of the bride of Christ is the Rapture.Paul speaks of the Catching Away.Paul also speaks of the restrainer taken out of the way in order for the man of lawlessness to come on the scene.
Who do the Catholics think the beast is in Revelation?Do the Catholics think there will be an Anti-Christ and a tribulation time of trouble such as never before.Jesus spoke of this in Matthew 24,the signs of the end.
There is scripture supporting the catching away.I will check out the links and information posted here.
For those that do believe the catching away of the bride of Christ is the Rapture.Paul speaks of the Catching Away.Paul also speaks of the restrainer taken out of the way in order for the man of lawlessness to come on the scene.
Who do the Catholics think the beast is in Revelation?Do the Catholics think there will be an Anti-Christ and a tribulation time of trouble such as never before.Jesus spoke of this in Matthew 24,the signs of the end.
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CentralFLJames
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No this whole nonsense of “being raptured away” is a very recent fabrication within certain Protestant/non-Catholic belief systems that has absolutely no basis in the apostolic teachings nor in scripture. But it sells a great many books and earns a lot of money for those who preach it since many of our Protestant fundamentalist brothers are fixated on “end times” and imagine we are at any moment going to be in the tribulations. The sad truth is many of these kind were “converted” to a distorted Christianity through these belief systems out of a fear of God, evil and damnation (a wrong motive – we are called out of Love only).
To put aside any of these misconceptions all one has to do is look to ALL the apostles and the millions of early church martyers who were EACH loved and cherished by God. NONE of these were “Raptured” away from the evils they were put up against as they were hideously tortured and persecuted for their faith (though there were certainly some cases of miracalous interventions by God to prevent some from certain forms of tortures – the apostle John was boiled in oil but survived to write Revelation).
But the idea of “rapture” is very compelling to people since it gives them a false hope that they by right of being Christian gives them a free-ticket to escape persecution. But nothing could be further from the truth - in fact its often the case that being Christian draws greater persecution since where good and evil come into proximity there is ALWAYS suffering - this is where grace is most efficacious and why Mary and the saints suffered so greatly being very holy. If you need further convincing ask yourself “why would God rapture away his people from suffering as a martyr to attain their highest grace and honor possible as martyrs. God did not do that for his early saints or for his own Son”? No, we are baptised into Christ to die and suffer for Christ so we may share in His glory and rapture is a way to deny the cross we all are told by God we must carry and suffer in various degrees as an honor to our Lord.
The modern-day notion of pre-tribulation rapture is a fairy-tale. All sinful men must die to enter into salvation. The cross is the doorway to heaven and on that Christ is where all encounter Jesus since “he is the way to truth and the life” and “none come to the father except through him”. The cross was prefigured in the OT as the door lentil where the pascal lamb’s blood was sprinkled on its timbers so death (in the spiritual sense) would passover those who enter therein.
Pax,
James
To put aside any of these misconceptions all one has to do is look to ALL the apostles and the millions of early church martyers who were EACH loved and cherished by God. NONE of these were “Raptured” away from the evils they were put up against as they were hideously tortured and persecuted for their faith (though there were certainly some cases of miracalous interventions by God to prevent some from certain forms of tortures – the apostle John was boiled in oil but survived to write Revelation).
But the idea of “rapture” is very compelling to people since it gives them a false hope that they by right of being Christian gives them a free-ticket to escape persecution. But nothing could be further from the truth - in fact its often the case that being Christian draws greater persecution since where good and evil come into proximity there is ALWAYS suffering - this is where grace is most efficacious and why Mary and the saints suffered so greatly being very holy. If you need further convincing ask yourself “why would God rapture away his people from suffering as a martyr to attain their highest grace and honor possible as martyrs. God did not do that for his early saints or for his own Son”? No, we are baptised into Christ to die and suffer for Christ so we may share in His glory and rapture is a way to deny the cross we all are told by God we must carry and suffer in various degrees as an honor to our Lord.
The modern-day notion of pre-tribulation rapture is a fairy-tale. All sinful men must die to enter into salvation. The cross is the doorway to heaven and on that Christ is where all encounter Jesus since “he is the way to truth and the life” and “none come to the father except through him”. The cross was prefigured in the OT as the door lentil where the pascal lamb’s blood was sprinkled on its timbers so death (in the spiritual sense) would passover those who enter therein.
Pax,
James
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CentralFLJames
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There is no scriptural support for “rapture” in the pre-tribulation sense. The only way to get it is to twist the original words and meanings and read in new ideas never before taught by any apostle. The rapture or as you say “catching away” happens AFTER the persecution and AFTER Jesus puts an end to evil and comes to pass final judgement. These still alive (very few) at this small instant in time will be either supernaturally slain by God (mercifully and instantly) and pulled into heaven (fulfilling the formula that all must die to enter heaven) or be granted a special exception since time is literally over when Christ’s comes. But the idea is we all must be removed from our currently corrupt bodies (even those who are evil) and then given perfect non-corrupt bodies that are with us for eternity. So again it is likely even the few surviving the tribulation must die only to be immediately brought into heaven and given a new body soon thereafter. The evil ones of course are cast body AND soul into hell for eternity.
As for “the beast” that is clearly one of the early Roman emperors who was persecuting the early Christian Church. As for the man of perdition and anti-Christ it is not important to concern ourselves and be preoccupied with “who” in particular it is - he will reveal himself when the time comes. Our focus is on Christ “the Son of God” and the One who will slay the evil one and cast him into hell (probably commanding St. Michael to end it).
Yes Catholics definately do believe in a time of tribulation but before that we must have a minor chastisement (which is massive and not at all “minor” except when compared to the horror of tribulation) and all the world’s erroneous faiths and teachings re-directed toward the true apostolic faith - Catholicism. Many of us think this is soon to be. Only after the entire world is converted to Catholicism will the tribulation come some time later when men again fall away and let evil ascend to its greatest level. But the tribulation will come after a time of renewal and re-falling away (perhaps over centuries) and be proceeded by a false prophet (to emulate John the Baptist) then the true anti-Christ. Anti-Christ will try to emulate Christ in all things but demand he be worshiped over God. There will be no mistaking who this is when that time comes.
James
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ziapueblo
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JustaServant
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Rapture theology was created in the 19th century by a woman who was a ‘seer’ in a Plymoth Brethren church in England. It was popularized by a preacher named C.I. Schofield in the beginning of the 20th century. Before that period, it was unknown. But it illustrates what happens with the idea of ‘sola scriptura’, various interpretations are taken fact because they are ‘popular’ interpretations. Your other questions appear to stem from Schofield’s theology of ‘dispensationalism’, which again, is a novel interpretation. Even most Reformed Protestants reject it.
As to the Catholic ‘position’, it is historically been Amillennial. The book of Revelation reveals itself in its first verse that it is a book of signs and symbols. Without proper direction as to what those ‘signs’ are, you have what you have today. Millions of books all claiming to be the ‘correct’ interpretation.
I would read the links you have been provided, I think they will answer some of your questions.
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MrZetterlund
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aw…
I was lookin forward to the rapture…:crying:
I was lookin forward to the rapture…:crying:
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JustaServant
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Well, I guess you’ll have to stay here for the next seven years and be tortured like the rest of us.aw…
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CentralFLJames
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haha. The silly thing about millaniarism/Darbyism/rapture-escapism is found in realizing that for 99.8% of us the 2nd coming of Christ is statistically going to happen WHEN WE DIE. If people spent 10% of the time they do worring about The End Times (which we have lived in since Christ rose from the dead) and “The Beast” and “The Anti-Christ” on their own souls and their own “end times” (e.g. personal deaths) the entire Christian world would rediscover the virtues of holiness and become strong Catholics.aw…
James
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Louemma
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This should not be consider silly.It’s heart breaking.Do you realize that there are the most sincere Christians that are looking for the catching away.Now in Matthew 24 Jesus talks about "two in a field,one taken the other left.What do you suppose Jesus meant by saying some would be taken and some left.haha. The silly thing about millaniarism/Darbyism/rapture-escapism is found in realizing that for 99.8% of us the 2nd coming of Christ is statistically going to happen WHEN WE DIE. If people spent 10% of the time they do worring about The End Times (which we have lived in since Christ rose from the dead) and “The Beast” and “The Anti-Christ” on their own souls and their own “end times” (e.g. personal deaths) the entire Christian world would rediscover the virtues of holiness and become strong Catholics.
James
This subject was not brought up because people spend their time consumed with end times.This subject was brought up because when studying God’s word we shouldn’t pick and choose WHAT WE think is important.The whole word of God needs to be studied and this includes Revelation and the end times.Really if you read God’s word there is no getting around the subject of Christ’s return.Naturally there are many teachings like the rapture that deserves checking into.
To say the whole world must convert to being catholic before the tribulation comes,as the same as the rapture,have you got scripture to validate this claim,of a one world religion?You seem pretty sure with this theory but have you got scripture to back up this claim that all must convert to Catholic before the tribulation comes?
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Spencerian
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Hi, Louemma.
To illustrate the serious misinterpretation in the “Left Behind” books and the tribulation interpretation, please read this Catholic.com tract on the issue.
You should re-read Scripture on who is “left behind.” As a popular Catholic apologetic noted, the evil people are the ones taken, not left behind. During the Flood, who was taken? The evil populace. Left behind was Noah, the good man and his family. Same is true for a similar parable of two people in a field. The good person was left behind. When Sodom was destroyed, Lot was left behind, not “taken.”
Try listening to this free audio program on “Rapture and the Bible” (just look for it on the page) to get more on why we are really trying to help steer you clear of this man-made idea that is not at all rooted in Scripture.
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CentralFLJames
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Well Louemma yes it is heartbreaking that so many well meaning people can be so easily mislead by other ostensibly “well meaning” people who have seen fit to invent new non-apostolic teachings that have never ever been taught before in Christ’s Church. History that is open for all to see has no recollection of any Christian every teaching millianiarism or pre-tribulation rapture before the 1800s. So we know it is a new concept and not one that comes to us from apostolic times. This is an error that comes out of private interpretation of scripture that Peter warned us explicitly not to do: 2*** Peter 3:16 He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.***
Catholics do not pick and choose what is important in scripture since ALL of scripture is important. But the tradition of Cafeteria Christianity is also a recent phenomena seen ONLY outside of the Catholic Church. Catholics who do so automatically excommunicate themselves if they ignore core teachings and opt for the things that only appeal to them. If the protestant theory of the bible teaching itself were true then there would be no need for the new Protestant “left behind” books and similar neo-Christian teaching self-study books since there are no new magic formulas or systems and revelations to be had. Christ has come and revealed ALL truth and has given us it all. It is as He said “finished” correct?
I don’t question your sincerity or your motive for bringing up the topic.
Catholics here have given you good references to read and I think these will help you come to realize the true teaching in this topic area. Catholics do believe in studying the entire word of God but also do so in a context of HANDED DOWN apostolic teachings that come directly from the apostles and their disciples. We are NOT free to arrive at contradictory teachings to what was handed down to us over the last 2,000 years and pre-tribulation rapture is NOT handed down to us as a legitimate teaching and is a very very recent innovation in modern times – times when we are told explicitly to be especially watchful of novel and perverse false teachings.
This is a tangential issue to the main question so I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it. But I will say that I must ask you to show me in scripture where it says “scripture contains all that is ever said about salvation” when we know that scripture itself tells us that it DOES NOT contain all that was ever said about God and salvation. Ref: scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html for dozens of scripture verses that refute the error of sola scriptura and private interpretation.
While every bit of Catholic teaching is 100% in agreement with scripture we have assurances that the apostolic teaching must also go hand in hand with scripture to keep Christianity from being hijacked by every Simon Magus or heretical doctrine that was trying to change the truth even during the times of the apostles all the way to current times. Here is the biblical basis for why pre-trib and millanarism rapture is WRONG: scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html
Catholics ALL believe in Christ’s second coming. ALL Catholics believe in the resurrection of the dead and the 2nd judgement. Why do you suggest we do not believe these things?
Catholics do not need to re-consider “rapture” teaching and every new thing under the sun that comes up in each new generation because The Church condemned this erroneous teaching long ago when it first popped up.
James
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ryanoneil
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The lesson from the flood is that except for Noah and his family, the rest of his generation were destroyed by God’s judgment. The righteous will be left, just as his family were spared, and the wicked will be taken, as Noah’s generation was swept away by the flood.
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JustaServant
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The Rapture is possibly the silliest of all Prostestant doctrines, and it should be noted that a majority of Protestants do NOT believe in the Rapture.There are numerous Bible passages that disprove the Rapture, many of the very passages used to promote the Rapture can be used to disprove it by simply putting them back into their proper context.
I guess when you believe you belong to some special group, you come to believe you will be spared ANY kind of tribulation. I remember a sermon by D James Kennedy, a presbyterian and no friend to Catholics. He spoke of this idea that ‘true’ christians will be spared tribulation. He used as an example a Chrisitan martyr. He described the tortures the pagan Romans put him through before they finally put him out of his misery.
He said “tell THAT man he was no going through tribulation…”
I guess when you believe you belong to some special group, you come to believe you will be spared ANY kind of tribulation. I remember a sermon by D James Kennedy, a presbyterian and no friend to Catholics. He spoke of this idea that ‘true’ christians will be spared tribulation. He used as an example a Chrisitan martyr. He described the tortures the pagan Romans put him through before they finally put him out of his misery.
He said “tell THAT man he was no going through tribulation…”
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Randy_Carson
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Louemma-
We agree that Jesus will return. However, Catholics believe this will happen once, not twice. The whole “Left Behind” scenario is nonsense.
I have the impression that you are an honest seeker and willing to do a bit of reading to gain understanding. If I’m right, this will be of interest:
**Articles Explaining the Rapture **
**Raptured or Not? **
**A Catholic Understanding **
By Michael D. Guinan, O.F.M., Ph.D.
americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1005.asp
The Rapture
catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
**LaHaying the Rapture on Thick
**By Carl Olson
envoymagazine.com/backissues/5.3/rapture.htm
Waiting to Be Raptured - Dispensationalist Thought in America
By Carl E. Olson
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9904fea1.asp
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ryanoneil
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Yes, Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us (Heb 9:28). Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. (Mt 16:27). When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. (Mt 25:31-46). There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment. The rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation (2 Thes 2:1-12).
**"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mt 24:29-31) **
**"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mt 24:29-31) **
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Louemma
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No I did not say Catholic pick and choose scripture.What I said is we can not pick and choose scripture,that the whole word of God needed to be studied on and this would include Revelation and end time.This was in regards to your statement that some are preoccupied by end times.I was merely stating that if we study God’s word,you can’t get around end time events in the Bible.
What I would like to know is how you came to the ideal that all will have to convert to being Catholic before the tribulation.
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