This may be petty....but would Jesus do it?

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malachi_a_serva

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I read on one of the posts that one can ask that a Mass be said for someone for the usual donation of $10.

A Priest usually receives a donation for performing a wedding ceremony.(a few hundred dollars?)

Annullments, they cost money.($1,500 ? I know it may depend on the finacial circumstances…some pay more…some less??)

Would Jesus ask for money?

He did many things and not once in scripture was there any assumption or leading that “consideration” is required.
 
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malachi_a_serva:
I read on one of the posts that one can ask that a Mass be said for someone for the usual donation of $10.

A Priest usually receives a donation for performing a wedding ceremony.(a few hundred dollars?)

Annullments, they cost money.($1,500 ? I know it may depend on the finacial circumstances…some pay more…some less??)

Would Jesus ask for money?

He did many things and not once in scripture was there any assumption or leading that “consideration” is required.
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LOL. Those crazy priests getting rich on $10 mass intentions.

A deacon performed our marriage ceremony. He didn’t ask for anything. We flew him to New Mexico where the ceremony was held. We paid for his plane ticket and hotel. We gave him $100 for the ceremony itself and wished we could give him more.

I’ve seen critics of the church complain about this practice. But when you add up the money priests receive in appreciation for the services they provide, it is a pittance. Of course these payments aren’t bribes. Think of it as a gratuity.

Of course the critics always neglect to mention that other faiths also give token payments to their ministers. The church isn’t getting rich on weddings, funerals, or mass intentions.
 
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SemperJase:
LOL. Those crazy priests getting rich on $10 mass intentions.

A deacon performed our marriage ceremony. He didn’t ask for anything. We flew him to New Mexico where the ceremony was held. We paid for his plane ticket and hotel. We gave him $100 for the ceremony itself and wished we could give him more.

I’ve seen critics of the church complain about this practice. But when you add up the money priests receive in appreciation for the services they provide, it is a pittance. Of course these payments aren’t bribes. Think of it as a gratuity.

Of course the critics always neglect to mention that other faiths also give token payments to their ministers. The church isn’t getting rich on weddings, funerals, or mass intentions.
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Not too concerned with the amount, just the practice. I know for a fact, my Pastor would not take one dollar for any of his services. In fact, for the church to finally afford to pay him a nominal salary was a blessing.

Just the “preactice”. Seems to put a value on money where it shouldn’t be. Is giving $100 bucks worth more than the reward of performing a god ordered service? Does it make it better? Is the reward better? That is just my point. It seems to put money in a place where Jesus said it shouldn’t be.

Just a thought.
 
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malachi_a_serva:
Would Jesus ask for money?
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Here is something that may ease your fears:
John 13:9 For some were supposing, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus was saying to him, “Buy the things we have need of for the feast”; or else, that he should give something to the poor.

So Jesus and a bunch of guys following him around who apparently didn’t work for a living accepted donations from followers. Judas kept track of this money (proof positive that you can’t trust an accountant ;)).

So to answer your question specifically, Jesus probably did ask for money, at least he took what was offered.
 
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malachi_a_serva:
Is giving $100 bucks worth more than the reward of performing a god ordered service? Does it make it better? Is the reward better? That is just my point. It seems to put money in a place where Jesus said it shouldn’t be.

Just a thought.
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In our case the Deacon did not ask for money. It didn’t make it “better” for him. We also recognized that we took him away from his family for two days. This was on top of the hours he spent with us in pre-marital counseling for which he didn’t ask for any money either.

It isn’t replacing Jesus, it is just realistic. He doesn’t get rich off of this but it is our way of supporting him for his support of us. And if you think that protestant pastors won’t take a stipend for performing a wedding, you are blissfully naive.

It might ideal that pastors can deny all forms of payment, but as you pointed out, they don’t get paid much as it is. A few bucks more for performing a service for us won’t make him rich, but will help.

To claim ministers should not accept payment just seems ungrateful for the time and effort they put in.
 
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SemperJase:
Jesus and a bunch of guys following him around who apparently didn’t work for a living accepted donations
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“apparently” well he might have been a carpenter as well. Plus didn’t Apostle Paul write …no work…no eat? Something like that.
 
malachi_a_serva said:
“apparently” well he might have been a carpenter as well. Plus didn’t Apostle Paul write …no work…no eat? Something like that.
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This is the first time I have heard that Jesus and the 12 supported themselves during Jesus three years of ministry. So what exactly did they do?

As I recall the 12 disciples left their jobs and followed Jesus.

BTW, I remember my parents wedding (yes, I was there - my mother’s second). They gave the “non-denominational” pastor a stipend for performing the ceremony. So I know that it is a customary practice in evangelical circles as well.

As for St. Paul’s words, I would call shepherding a church “work”. The demands on a minister’s time for counseling, weddings, funerals, and the regulary weekend obligations are enormous.
 
Actually when you read the scriptures Christ sends out the apostles and tells them to accept only what people will give them. They aren’t to charge, but to accept what people offer.

Jesus did it as well, as we read in John, Judas was in charge of the funds for the group.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Nicene:
Actually when you read the scriptures Christ sends out the apostles and tells them to accept only what people will give them. They aren’t to charge, but to accept what people offer
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We actually asked the deacon who performed our ceremony what would be appropriate for a stipend. He refused to answer and said it was totally up to us what we thought was appropriate and could afford.

God Bless Deacon Ken.
 
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malachi_a_serva:
I read on one of the posts that one can ask that a Mass be said for someone for the usual donation of $10.
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This is the one that I’d like to know about. How did this come to be?

How come it’s “pay to pray”?

I understand that Mass cards aren’t free so the Church has to recoup the expense but to simply request prayer means we have to pay for it?

I think I’m missing something here.
 
I was married in a Baptist church. During the premarital counselling, the pastor’s wife told us to make sure we gave a generous gift to her husband because he used the money he made from weddings to buy her gifts. The wedding coordinator - also provided by the church for a fee - told us that $100 was the usual amount to give.
 
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MaryD7:
This is the one that I’d like to know about. How did this come to be?

How come it’s “pay to pray”?

I understand that Mass cards aren’t free so the Church has to recoup the expense but to simply request prayer means we have to pay for it?

I think I’m missing something here.
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It’s not pay to pray, if you truly can’t afford it you won’t be denied a mass intention.

In bold are the words of the Archbishop of Manila.
Canon 946: The faithful who make an offering so that Mass can be celebrated for their intention, contribute to the good of the Church, and that by their offering they share in the Church’s concern for the support of its ministers and its activities.”
Code: 
   **It is clear from the prescriptions of the Code that Mass offerings should be seen as a gift to the Church for the support of its ministers or other purposes and not as a contract involving services in return for the payment of money. **
Canon 945: In accordance with the approved custom of the Church, any priest who celebrates or concelebrates a Mass may accept an offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention.

**The law prescribes that a priest can accept one offering for one Mass.

**By accepting about $10 as a standard donation per mass no priest is getting much more than lunch money. Many priests even forward these intentions to mission parishes.

In mission parishes the priests truly struggle for enough money to live and operate and $10 CAN make a real difference.
 
A story, only somewhat related.
We had twins while we still had 2 others under 5 years old, and were a single income family.
When we had the twins baptized, we did ask our Priest what would be an appropriate offering.
His exact words were - you keep it, you are goiing to need it.
Services and masses are not with held because of lack of funds, nor should they be, but helping out financially in the support of one’s church should be understood as the responsibility that comes with belonging.
That isn’t to say that there are not some that may abuse the system, I know of one Pentecostal congregation that rquests copies of one’s T4 (tax) slip before you can join, so they may properly send you your invoice for the tithe.
I wish I could afford the house and car that that pastor has.
This question is a non starter for me as the support should be freely given and any abuses are just that, abuse.
 
Of course not, these things are not bought and sold.

The offerings are suggested more or less as the petitioner is able. The consumeables need replacing, the priest needs feeding and fuel etc…we do not live in a perfect world:)
 
I think the point made above is the Church is not charging, people are giving. It’s a charitable gesture on our part, one the Church has said is okay to do and a good idea.

Heck I give the pizza delivery guy money…and all he’s doing is bringing me pizza.

And it’s not a fee…the priest may not take the money; but if you give him $20 and he accepts he’s not going to make change.
 
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MonkeyTape:
It’s not pay to pray, if you truly can’t afford it you won’t be denied a mass intention.

In bold are the words of the Archbishop of Manila.
Canon 946: The faithful who make an offering so that Mass can be celebrated for their intention, contribute to the good of the Church, and that by their offering they share in the Church’s concern for the support of its ministers and its activities.”
Code: 
   **It is clear from the prescriptions of the Code that Mass offerings should be seen as a gift to the Church for the support of its ministers or other purposes and not as a contract involving services in return for the payment of money. **
Canon 945: In accordance with the approved custom of the Church, any priest who celebrates or concelebrates a Mass may accept an offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention.

**The law prescribes that a priest can accept one offering for one Mass.

**By accepting about $10 as a standard donation per mass no priest is getting much more than lunch money. Many priests even forward these intentions to mission parishes.

In mission parishes the priests truly struggle for enough money to live and operate and $10 CAN make a real difference.
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Thanks for your response.

I truly do understand why a donation to a member of the clergy would be warranted. These men give of themselves and of their time so it is the least I could do.

I guess I get a little squeamy about paying somebody to pray for my intentions. I get loads of letters from charities, etc., that say “for the donation of _____ your intentions will be remembered in a special mass”. I know that these letters are not underhanded but I almost feel like I have to pay to get someone to pray for my intentions.

Our household does tithe but given we have five children, extra money isn’t exactly flying around. Every once in a while I can afford to have a Mass said but that is the exception rather than the rule.

I think this squeamishness may also stem from my background. I was raised Protestant and never did we have to pay to have our intentions lifted up in prayer. But, then again, requests for prayer weren’t as “formalized” (for lack of a better word) as they are in the Catholic Church.
 
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MonkeyTape:
It’s not pay to pray, if you truly can’t afford it you won’t be denied a mass intention.

In bold are the words of the Archbishop of Manila.
Canon 946: The faithful who make an offering so that Mass can be celebrated for their intention, contribute to the good of the Church, and that by their offering they share in the Church’s concern for the support of its ministers and its activities.”
Code: 
   **It is clear from the prescriptions of the Code that Mass offerings should be seen as a gift to the Church for the support of its ministers or other purposes and not as a contract involving services in return for the payment of money. **
Canon 945: In accordance with the approved custom of the Church, any priest who celebrates or concelebrates a Mass may accept an offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention.

**The law prescribes that a priest can accept one offering for one Mass.

**By accepting about $10 as a standard donation per mass no priest is getting much more than lunch money. Many priests even forward these intentions to mission parishes.

In mission parishes the priests truly struggle for enough money to live and operate and $10 CAN make a real difference.
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I would respectfully disagree with his excellency, the archishop of Manila. While canon 946 does specify that stipends are a donation, they do also oblige the priest who receives them to say a Mass for the requested intention, or to transmit the stipend (and obligation) to another priest. Or so says my reading of the canons following 946.

You can read the relevant canons here: CHAPTER III : THE OFFERING MADE FOR THE CELEBRATION OF MASS

Also, the practice of “collective intentions” (applying a single Mass for multiple intentions) has been allowed under controlled circumstances since 1991, according to this DECREE ON MASS STIPENDS from the Congregation for the Clergy.

“I Am Not A Canon Lawyer”,
tee
 
Hi malalchi,

I have a hard time with this too - always have and I think always will. While it is a voluntary gift and not a request or requirement as others have pointed out, I think many Catholics, from my experience, look upon it as obligatory and it does come across as paying for someone to pray for you - especially to non-Catholics. As usual, when you look to the official Church documentation it is all explained very well and you realize you are not ‘paying for prayers or a Mass’.

My personal preference would be for the Church to just not accept any monetary donations for these types of things, but Rome hasn’t called me yet for my vote!!!

At the very least, I think our priests need to do a much better job explaining this practice so their parishoners understand.
 
1 Timothy 5:17-25
17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; 18 for the scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

1 Corinthians 9: 1 - 27
1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Don’t we have the right to eat and drink? 5 Don’t we have the right to be accompanied by a Christian wife, like the other apostles, the Lord’s brothers, and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working? 7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its fruit? Or who shepherds a flock and does not drink the milk from the flock? 8 Am I saying this from a human perspective? Doesn’t the law also say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain. Is God really concerned with oxen? 10 Or isn’t He really saying it for us? Yes, this is written for us, because he who plows ought to plow in hope, and he who threshes should do so in hope of sharing the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this authority over you, don’t we even more? However, we have not used this authority; instead we endure everything so that we will not hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who perform the temple services eat the food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the offerings of the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.
 
Our parish suggests $5 for each Mass, but it is not required.

Also, our archdiocese has a sliding scale for annulments and they are free if there is true financial hardship.

At our first baptism, we didn’t bring money for the priest. My mom was mortified, and between my Dad and us we scraped up $40. When we offered it to the priest, he said to donate it to the parish. Our associate pastor just bought beautiful chalices for our parish with his own money. The church received complaints that we were buying finery when the poor suffer, so he had to 'fess up that he purchased and donated them. So, the money he receives goes to good use.

Having mission priests say Masses and giving them stipends is a wonderful practice. They receive our money (well needed in poor countries) and we get Masses for our intentions. In our parish, you often have to wait months to have a Mass said for an intention. It is mutually beneficial. It is great to be Catholic and connected with priests all other the world.

However, if I ask a priest to say a prayer for me, he wouldn’t charge.
 
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