Transgender, Happiness and Truth

  • Thread starter Thread starter PRmerger
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
PRmerger said:
What is the correct narrative for transgender folks?

Is it: this is who I am, and therefore I will only be happy when I embrace how I was born?

“Born this way” is the meme, yes?

How does this story of Stefonknee Wolscht reconcile with those who embrace the above meme?

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...en/derivatives/article_307/trans13n-2-web.jpg

nydailynews.com/news/world/transgender-woman-leaves-wife-7-kids-live-girl-article-1.2463795
Click to expand...
Okay this is beyond weird. Is this for real?
 
This case is more than just transgenderism. Cisgendered people do this, too.

The age thing.
 
Rhubarb said:
This case is more than just transgenderism. Cisgendered people do this, too.

The age thing.
Click to expand...
Would you be ok if your son/daughter did this, Rhubarb?

And please note, this is a hypothetical, so there is no need to explain, “I do not have any children, since I am a gay man” or “I have had a hysterectomy and am 60 so am not going to be having any children”…
 
PRmerger said:
Would you be ok if your son/daughter did this, Rhubarb?

And please note, this is a hypothetical, so there is no need to explain, “I do not have any children, since I am a gay man” or “I have had a hysterectomy and am 60 so am not going to be having any children”…
Click to expand...
I don’t think I have enough facts at hand to make an honest answer. I can only judge on what I see before me, so, I’ll be happy to give it a shot.

I’d have no problem if my child turned out to be trans. For the age play, what they do as adults in their own homes with consensual people wouldn’t be my business. I would have a problem with my child (or anyone for that matter) abdicating their parental responsibilities.
 
Notices she says, “I don’t WANT to be an adult.” She does not claim that she IS a child. She just wants to avoid adult responsibilities.

From what I’ve seen, transgendered people say that they are members of the sex that does not conform to their physical sexual characteristics.
 
Book_Worm said:
Notices she says, “I don’t WANT to be an adult.” She does not claim that she IS a child. She just wants to avoid adult responsibilities.

From what I’ve seen, transgendered people say that they are members of the sex that does not conform to their physical sexual characteristics.
Click to expand...
But if he identified as a 6 year old, would we say: that’s perfectly acceptable and I will treat you as you see yourself?
 
Rhubarb said:
I don’t think I have enough facts at hand to make an honest answer. I can only judge on what I see before me, so, I’ll be happy to give it a shot.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I was expecting a deflection, so I appreciate your giving it a shot.
I’d have no problem if my child turned out to be trans. For the age play, what they do as adults in their own homes with consensual people wouldn’t be my business. I would have a problem with my child (or anyone for that matter) abdicating their parental responsibilities.
Click to expand...
No. Not age play. He identifies as a 6 year old. Do we then treat him as he identifies himself?

Is he a 6 year old because that’s how he identifies as?

NB: this is hypothetical. I have no idea what this man in the article’s true feelings are.
The question is bigger than this man.

It is this: if a person identifies as a [fill in the blank], is that what he is? So, if he identifies as a 6 year old, is he a 6 year old?
 
Rhubarb said:
I’d have no problem if my child turned out to be trans.
Click to expand...
I assume this means only transgender.

You would have a problem for other “trans”, yes?

Like the “transabled”?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Chloe Jennings White–totally able to walk, but identifies as disabled.
 
Rhubarb said:
Apples and oranges.
Click to expand...
Not really.

What about “trans age”? It’s coming, if not here already.

What about trans height? I am medium bodied. If I started to “identify” as six five, should I expect any response other than ridicule?

Why should sexuality be given pride of place among other unalterable body characteristics, as being defined by the feelings?

ICXC NIKA
 
I support the right of any person to be happy, as long as it doesn’t harm anyone else and the person can lead a reasonably healthy and productive life.
 
GEddie said:
Not really.

What about “trans age”? It’s coming, if not here already.

What about trans height? I am medium bodied. If I started to “identify” as six five, should I expect any response other than ridicule?

Why should sexuality be given pride of place among other unalterable body characteristics, as being defined by the feelings?

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
Slow it down for a second, go on step at a time. The question is why I don’t think transgender is comparable to ‘transage’ that you insist is coming. I’ll reserve judgement about whether it’s coming until I see studies and statistics.

I think a striking reason why these two aren’t analogous is because one’s age isn’t controversial. Your age is simply how long it’s been since your birth. Sex is also (generally) uncontroversial. Even trans people (again, generally) can’t coherently argue their biological sex is different from how they were born.

One’s gender (provided we’re using the word in the same way) isn’t a simple measurement. It encompasses social, interpersonal, and cultural norms. These norms aren’t static across societies and through time. What constitutes male norms and female norms can and does change.

Of course you might argue that sex and gender cannot be decoupled. If that’s the case I think you have a problem. This seems to imply that sex and gender refer to the same thing. If that is correct, I don’t see how one can adequately explain the changing of gender norms and roles, third-gender classes that have been recognized since ancient times, or indigenous cultures that do not couple sex and gender. I think that the best explanation of these things is that sex and gender are distinct. Sex describes one’s biological sex, while gender describes the norms and roles one assumes in society.
 
Nyx said:
I support the right of any person to be happy, as long as it doesn’t harm anyone else and the person can lead a reasonably healthy and productive life.
Click to expand...
Everyone agrees to this. What is at issue is what it means to harm or be reasonably healthy and productive.

For example, mutilation is very harmful to a person’s organs, and not healthy, since healthy people do not desire to damage functioning body parts, nor productive, since it makes the person sterile.

Transgenderism harms society because it confuses the compatiblity and essential difference between the two sexes.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Tim_D said:
No, it’s not. It is psychological illness. Giving into it won’t make it any better.
Click to expand...
Transgenderism as we know it today isn’t the only example of gender fluidity. You’re offering a conclusion without a supporting argument. Mocking ad hoc derision does not support a conclusion well. This is a philosophy forum - show the argument.
 
Lucretius said:
Everyone agrees to this. What is at issue is what it means to harm or be reasonably healthy and productive.

For example, mutilation is very harmful to a person’s organs, and not healthy, since healthy people do not desire to damage functioning body parts, nor productive, since it makes the person sterile.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Click to expand...
You’re question begging. Mutilation is not healthy because healthy people do not mutilate themselves.
 
Rhubarb said:
You’re question begging. Mutilation is not healthy because healthy people do not mutilate themselves.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t really making an argument, but to point out that these sort of statements tend to presuppose principles the opposition rejects.

Furthermore, I didn’t beg the question, because I derive the standard of healthiness from natural law. That is, my statement is that healthy people do not mutilate themselves, and we know what a healthy person is and does by our understanding of nature and the natural law.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
When I look back on it, I might have worded what I said originally badly.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top