U.S. Army Bans Use of Privately Purchased Body Armor by Troops

[wabrams]

U.S. Army Bans Use of Privately Purchased Body Armor by TroopsThursday, March 30, 2006

WASHINGTON — Soldiers will no longer be allowed to wear body armor other than the protective gear issued by the military, Army officials said Thursday, the latest twist in a running battle over the equipment the [Pentagon](javascript:siteSearch(‘Pentagon’) gives its troops in [Iraq](javascript:siteSearch(‘Iraq’) and [Afghanistan](javascript:siteSearch(‘Afghanistan’).

Army officials told The Associated Press that the order was prompted by concerns that soldiers or their families were buying inadequate or untested commercial armor from private companies — including the popular [Dragon Skin](javascript:siteSearch(‘Dragon Skin’) gear made by California-based [Pinnacle Armor](javascript:siteSearch(‘Pinnacle Armor’).

“We’re very concerned that people are spending their hard-earned money on something that doesn’t provide the level of protection that the Army requires people to wear. So they’re, frankly, wasting their money on substandard stuff,” said Col. Thomas Spoehr, director of materiel for the Army.

Source: foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189763,00.html

 

[koda]

Let’s take a better look at this story and see what prompted the Pentagon to do this:

*Early in the Iraq war, soldiers and their families were spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on protective gear that they said the military was not providing.

Then, last October, after months of pressure from families and members of Congress, the military began a reimbursement program for soldiers who purchased their own protective equipment.

In January, an unreleased Pentagon study found that side armor could have saved dozens of U.S. lives in Iraq, prompting the Army and Marine Corps to order thousands of ceramic body armor plates to be shipped to troops there this year.*

more @
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060330/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/army_body_armor

 

[wabrams]

koda:

Let’s take a better look at this story and see what prompted the Pentagon to do this:

They are almost the exact same article. Your article from Yahoo originated from the Associated Press, and written by the same author as this story:
customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARMY_BODY_ARMOR?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

My article was posted on Fox News from an unknown author at the AP; probably the same one.

 

[koda]

wabrams:

They are almost the exact same article. Your article from Yahoo originated from the Associated Press, and written by the same author as this story:
customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARMY_BODY_ARMOR?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

My article was posted on Fox News from an unknown author at the AP; probably the same one.

Yeah, I’ve only seen one article. What I wanted to point out was the background on this. I remember hearing from military families again and again in the media about the fact that the military didn’t provide body armour and so they were having to buy it themselves. To me, that is truly disgraceful. I think it’s great that the army is now providing the best armour they can get, I just think it’s way overdue.

 

[gilliam]

Well, take it from this military family. They have plenty of body armor now. And it is a lot better than stuff you can purchase at the local flee market and send over.

Bottom line: The military now has enough good stuff in field that they can prevent junk from being shipped over and worn because Mom sent it over and GI Joe doesn’t want to hurt her feelings.

This is a non-story story folks.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Seems to me that soldiers would use the military armor provided to them.

BUT, if there was no body armor available, then the personal stuff would be acceptable.

The ban as stated in the news article doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense… I’d like to see the full text of the actual Army regulation. Not just a press release.

Military personnel have always used personal equipment to supplement stuff supplied by the military.

Rifle cleaning kits. Food (G.I.'s have always gotten “Care Packages” from home). GPS units (civilian units were light years ahead of military units during GW1). .45 cal. pistols in place of .38 or 9mm pistols. Cell phones and personal credit cards.

I’d like to see the actual reg.

 

[gilliam]

Al Masetti:

Rifle cleaning kits. Food (G.I.'s have always gotten “Care Packages” from home). GPS units (civilian units were light years ahead of military units during GW1). .45 cal. pistols in place of .38 or 9mm pistols. Cell phones and personal credit cards.

.

Leatherman knives (my son carries mine)

By the way, about 6 months ago there was a huge recall on some of the armor that the military uses. Don’t know how much of that defective stuff is on the open market. The military got rid of all that it had.

 

[gilliam]

Looks like I was right, the reson for the regulation is to get the junk out of the field because we have plenty in field now.

Plenty of standard-issue body armor is available for soldiers serving in overseas combat zones, Sorenson said. In fact, more than 200,000 sets of tested and authorized body armor, he said, have been forwarded to U.S. military theaters of operation

dod.mil/news/Mar2006/20060331_4676.html

 

[Al_Masetti]

gilliam:

Leatherman knives (my son carries mine)

By the way, about 6 months ago there was a huge recall on some of the armor that the military uses. Don’t know how much of that defective stuff is on the open market. The military got rid of all that it had.

Yup, that’s the main thing I forgot: KNIVES !!!

Reminds me of that “joke” in Crocodile Dundee… “son, that’s not a knife… THIS is a knife.”

 

[gelsbern]

Al Masetti:

Military personnel have always used personal equipment to supplement stuff supplied by the military.

Rifle cleaning kits. Food (G.I.'s have always gotten “Care Packages” from home). GPS units (civilian units were light years ahead of military units during GW1). .45 cal. pistols in place of .38 or 9mm pistols. Cell phones and personal credit cards.

I’d like to see the actual reg.

Please don’t take this as me being a jerk, I just wanted to correct you just in case someone read your list and thought they would send a care package of their own.

As a veteran, I can tell you that almost NONE of the stuff you mentioned is sent in care packages and if they were, the packages would never make it to the soldiers.

GPS units: GPS was originally desgined for the military, back during GW1 Civilian GPS units were not allowed to be as accurate as the military GPS units and were usually inaccurate up to several hundred meters. Current Civillian GPS units are still not as accurate as military units, but the regulations on them have loosend and now they have a much better accuracy rating, usually within 10 to 20 meters. However, since the GPS system is controlled by the military, if things got to a certain point, they can and would be able to disable all civillian GPS receivers both globally and in specific areas.

45 cal handguns: Unless you have a Federal Firearms License, you cannot ship a firearm of any kind. And no firearms at all may be shipped via the post office which is how ALL packages are sent to solders. If a firearm is shipped it is shipped via a carrier such as UPS and the person or company with the FFL sends you all required paperwork etc, so that it is actually them doing the shipping. Also, with the fact that the military since around 1991 phased out the .45, obtaining ammo for them would be next to impossible in foreign lands, especially for enlisted personel who are unable to run to the local Bass Pro Shop or Achmed’s Gun Shop. Especially since the .45 is a mainly American caliber and cannot be found in many other countries…

Cell Phones: For my secular job, I do programming and support for a major company in the cellular telephone industry, which means I have bad news there too. Cell Phones from the US unless they are Quad Band GSM (digital) phones will not work in foreign countries and even then they might not work if the frequency allocation is different as each country sets up their own frequency allocations. GSM in the US uses 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Europe uses 900Mhz and 1900Mhz, and that is just GSM, there is also other digital modes, TDMA, CDMA, PCS so sending the right phone would be next to impossible. Also the old analog phones would probably not work either due to the different frequency allocation each country has. Then there is the lack of cell phone towers, and ways of recharging the phones etc that would basically make a cell phone useless. Now that’s not to say that they arent sent, but they would just be useless weight.

Credit Cards: Credit cards might be sent by some people as well, but they also would be very difficult to put to use as there aren’t many ATM’s or Shops that take Visa (Visa is the only card accepted in Iraq at the moment) in the desert, and most of the places in the towns probably aren’t able to accept them either.

I do know that cell phones and credit cards are sent to those in basic training and AIT, but the cell phones are usually confiscated during Basic Training, and might be returned once the soldier begins AIT but probably not until after graduation as the military views phone calls for trainees as a privilege and not a right I don’t think the credit cards are not confiscated but they might be, when I was in they were not, BUT the drill seargants defintely gave the privates the big long lecture about financial responsibility while they were in the forward leaning rest position. (Picture being at the top of the pushup exercise and holding yourself there while the drill seargant gives a 5 minute talk about the soldiers duty and responsibility to handle his or her finances properly)

With that being said, if there is an item you want to send to a soldier, I would look here toward the bottom at the section titled RESTRICTIONS to see if it is allowed to be sent or not.

usps.com/cpim/ftp/bulletin/2003/html/pb22101/apofpo.html

Also for reference on the other items:
GPS
pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1269.htm

Cell Phones
www22.verizon.com/about/community/learningcenter/articles/printerfriendly1/0%2C1728%2C1008%2C00.html

Credit Cards
export.gov/iraq/bus_climate/travel_faq.html#K

 

[Al_Masetti]

gelsbern:

…packages would never make it to the soldiers.

GPS units: GPS was originally desgined for the military, back during GW1 Civilian GPS units were not allowed to be as accurate as the military GPS units and were usually inaccurate up to several hundred meters. Current Civillian GPS units are still not as accurate as military units, but the regulations on them have loosend and now they have a much better accuracy rating, usually within 10 to 20 meters. However, since the GPS system is controlled by the military, if things got to a certain point, they can and would be able to disable all civillian GPS receivers both globally and in specific areas.

45 cal handguns: Unless you have a Federal Firearms License, you cannot ship a firearm of any kind. And no firearms at all may be shipped via the post office which is how ALL packages are sent to solders. If a firearm is shipped it is shipped via a carrier such as UPS and the person or company with the FFL sends you all required paperwork etc, so that it is actually them doing the shipping. Also, with the fact that the military since around 1991 phased out the .45, obtaining ammo for them would be next to impossible in foreign lands, especially for enlisted personel who are unable to run to the local Bass Pro Shop or Achmed’s Gun Shop. Especially since the .45 is a mainly American caliber and cannot be found in many other countries…

Cell Phones: For my secular job, I do programming and support for a major company in the cellular telephone industry, which means I have bad news there too. Cell Phones from the US unless they are Quad Band GSM (digital) phones will not work in foreign countries and even then they might not work if the frequency allocation is different as each country sets up their own frequency allocations. GSM in the US uses 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Europe uses 900Mhz and 1900Mhz, and that is just GSM, there is also other digital modes, TDMA, CDMA, PCS so sending the right phone would be next to impossible. Also the old analog phones would probably not work either due to the different frequency allocation each country has. Then there is the lack of cell phone towers, and ways of recharging the phones etc that would basically make a cell phone useless. Now that’s not to say that they arent sent, but they would just be useless weight.

Credit Cards: Credit cards might be sent by some people as well, but they also would be very difficult to put to use as there aren’t many ATM’s or Shops that take Visa (Visa is the only card accepted in Iraq at the moment) in the desert, and most of the places in the towns probably aren’t able to accept them either.

With that being said, if there is an item you want to send to a soldier, I would look here toward the bottom at the section titled RESTRICTIONS to see if it is allowed to be sent or not.

Seems to me that during GW1, a lot of soldiers bought Radio Shack or Magellan GPS units as well as other consumer electronics for use in the field. At the time, the Army wasn’t issuing mil spec GPS to field units. They didn’t see the need. And the bureaucracy was non-responsive. The guys used the stuff for navigating in the desert. As a result of the impact they made, the Army did some experiments after the war was over… they put GPS units on containers and vehicles being shipped back home and were shocked to learn how easy it was to track the equipment.

Also seems to me I saw photos of Fed Ex aircraft in the GW1 theater.

Might want to double check on the .45 pistolas. I only know what I have been told and what I have read.

Ammo has always been an issue… snipers used to have problems because they were elite troops and the bureaucracy frowned on elite troops. So there was some discussion about snipers loading their own if they couldn’t get match grade ammo. That situation may have been cleared up more recently.

During the Panama situation, mil spec comms were unable to provide what was needed; there was a highly publicized case of someone who used his calling card at a pay phone back to DC or some place to do what needed to be done.

The “book” may say one thing. What actually takes place may be something else. GI’s in the field, if concerned with survival, may be adaptable.

Bureaucrats frown on “midnight requisitioning”, but scrounging equipment needed for the mission has long been a military tradition. The bureaucrats hate it… because it implies they are unable to do their jobs… just because the field guys want something, doesn’t mean that the bureaucrats have to give it to them. [This last paragraph reflects my personal experience.]

“If we don’t have it, then you don’t need it.” - Another bureaucratic motto.

 

[gilliam]

Al Masetti:

Yup, that’s the main thing I forgot: KNIVES !!!

Reminds me of that “joke” in Crocodile Dundee… “son, that’s not a knife… THIS is a knife.”

Yea, he purchased a large knife before he shipped out. Then he traided it with an Iraqi for a similar Iraqi one. I pray he never has to use it.

The leatherman he uses all the time.

As he does the mini-maglight he purchased.

 

[vern_humphrey]

gilliam:

Yea, he purchased a large knife before he shipped out. Then he traided it with an Iraqi for a similar Iraqi one. I pray he never has to use it.

The leatherman he uses all the time.

As he does the mini-maglight he purchased.

I always carried a Randall Model 14 bowie. When my oldest daughter was commissioned and was in Officer Basic, she told me she needed a knife to take to the field. So now she has my Randall.

A few years ago, she gave me a stainless steel replscement for Christmas.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[Digitonomy]

Al Masetti:

During the Panama situation, mil spec comms were unable to provide what was needed; there was a highly publicized case of someone who used his calling card at a pay phone back to DC or some place to do what needed to be done.

This was depicted in the movie Heartbreak Ridge, set in Grenada. This site suggests that no such event occurred. However, I have heard that there were serious problems with communication during Panama.

 

[wabrams]

Digitonomy:

This was depicted in the movie Heartbreak Ridge, set in Grenada. This site suggests that no such event occurred. However, I have heard that there were serious problems with communication during Panama.

If I remember correctly, it did happen in Grenada, but it happened to SEAL Team Six. One of the officers had hand drawn maps as a back up and ended up needing them whe their equipment was lost/damaged. I think he used his credit card to call his wife, who had it forwarded to his home base.