Vaccines and abortion

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jess7396

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I am a new poster here, so I apologize if this has been previously discussed.

I was shocked just over a year ago to find out that certain childhood vaccines were derived from aborted fetuses. I would like to give a few links for informational purposes.

friendsforlifeinc.org/html/lifeissues.html
ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/RUBELLA.TXT

geocities.com/titus2birthing/VacProLife.html

cogforlife.org/

I am not putting this here for debate over wether or not we as parents should use these vaccines for our children. I have chosen not to use them (any further, sadly I used them before I knew), but the Church has yet to make an official stand on the issue of the use of these vaccines by Catholics, theologists argue both sides.

I simply was shocked myself when I found this out, and wished I had known sooner, and wondered why no one had told me :confused: . Turns out, most people simply do not know 😦 . I want to spread the word, as I am a pro-life activist and like to educate on ALL life issues :wink.
 
I also discovered this while I was pregnant with my last child (he is now 2). I think it is terrible that this information is not included in the pamplets they give you when you get your kids vaccinated. Unfortunately I did not know this with my first 2 children. After they both had reactions to vaccines we stopped vaccinations. Our youngest has never been vaccinated and he is the most healthy one…
Our pediatrician refused to treat our kids because we would not vaccinate them! (and he is Catholic)
 
My Friends–

perhaps we can get one of the CA staff to weigh in on what constitutes remote and proximate material cooperation with evil as the principle applies to this case. I think your consciences can be clear, though this may be a good reason to avoid vaccinations, nonetheless.

Vaccinations are not necessarily bad–some have done a great deal for the public good. Many, however, are wholly gratuitous (chicken pox, hep b) and seem designed to serve the working mother industry or the pharmeceutical industry.

The Church may, in fact, regard the receipt of vaccinations in some cases as a moral good.

Chris C.
 
I thank God for a holy family practice doctor. Not only did he refuse to give my children chicken pox vaccines, he also showed me the truth about prenatal diagnostic testing.

It is a shame that most pediatricians don’t even educate their clients so that the client can make an informed moral choice.

My previous pediatrician guilted me into vaccinating my older children. I wish I had known 😦
It’s important to find a doctor who is willing to act as a moral human being. I thank God for mine.
 
The other thing to realize is that it’s a lot easier to make a do not vaccinate decision knowing that your children will probably never be exposed to measles, rubella etc because my children (and most of the U.S.) has been vaccinated and therefore these viruses are almost dormant here.

Are vaccines still made this way? Or, was the original strain started and now just replicated in the lab?

Kris
 
Not sure…but I believe that the strains a merely replicated in a lab. Which would mean that using the vaccines involves no cooperation in the evil act which was the original source of the cells.

We choose not to use them anyway. Plus, from what I understand the only vaccines that are made this way are vaccines for diseases that are not particularly dangerous anyway, like chicken pox. In other words, the benefit that is gained from many of these vaccines is of little real value.
 
The chicken pox vaccine became available about 1 year after both of my children had it so it was never an issue. I was glad because I had my reservations about this vaccine against a disease that usually isn’t a big deal. Surprisingly, I’ve never had them myself; my sisters and I are naturally immune. (You’d have to know my mother to know that there is no way we three girls had chicken pox and she missed it - perhaps on one of us, but all three, I doubt it.)

I’ll have to read more about how an aborted fetus could provide a vaccine for any disease - the science makes no sense to me at first pondering.

If I were to have more children, I probably wouldn’t vaccinate against the chicken pox but would for other virus caused diseases.

Kris
 
I have to run out now to get a boy I babysit from school, and won’t have much time for posting tonight- the links I provided will answer all the questions asked so far very well. For example, chicken pox is rarely a problem, but rubella can be a real problem for a woman who never gets the disease until pregnancy, at which point her unborn child could suffer terrible birth defects. The most comprehensive site (IMO) for info. on this topic is www.cogforlife.org that I linked to above as well.

There is a lot to learn about this, and the implications are very real, and our actions should at the very least be carefully considered as well as well researched. :thumb

The very least we can do about this is to write to the vaccine manufacturers and demand that they make alternative vaccines available, not made on the backs of innocent babies.
 
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kwitz:
The other thing to realize is that it’s a lot easier to make a do not vaccinate decision knowing that your children will probably never be exposed to measles, rubella etc because my children (and most of the U.S.) has been vaccinated and therefore these viruses are almost dormant here.

Are vaccines still made this way? Or, was the original strain started and now just replicated in the lab?

Kris
Click to expand...
We also have chosen not to Vaccinate, and our Children are quite healthy, that you very much. 🙂

Kris,

This issue is bigger than just a strain started and left to live. It is actually the “Replication” process that is the culprit here. Where Aborted Fetus tissue comes into play is it is the “best” tissue (“purest”, because it is human) in which to grow the strains (incubate them, so to speak). So, this is an active process. The tissue needs to be “alive” to some degree in order for the virus (or anti-virus) to use it as a host. So, they are continually “Harvesting” the “tissue”. (Hmmm, starting to sound like the Matrix, don’t you think?)

Some, in fact many, pharmaceuticals use other tissue to grow their strains, such as monkey and chicken tissues (cells). This, of course, adds a level of complexity as you are essentially growing vaccines for chickens or monkeys, and altering them chemically to make them applicable to human beings.

Regardless, it’s a lot of stuff in there that I would prefer NOT to put into my kids veins, for Moral and Health reasons.

There is only one thing pharaceuticals are looking out for (hint: It’s not your well being):

MONEY.

I don’t choose to give them my business.

Our best defence: Eating organic as much as possible, and getting regular exercise…God created us with amazing bodies…if we just give our bodies the right tools, it’s amazing what it can do!
 
Just a question: If you got cancer would you just eat organic, excercise etc. all those healthy natural things and of course prayer or would it be ok then to use the products that pharmicuticals use and scientiests use like radiation and chemo and all the other things made to treat cancer?
God gave us people to make products like chemo drugs etc.
No, we should not use something created from aborted babies or stem cells but we have to be careful in our critization, its always easy to pass judgement when life is good and we and our kids are healthy but you never know what is waiting around the corner for us and I for one am so glad that we have treatments for Cancer and that we don’t have to fear rubella, polio etc.
My mother in law had polio as a child, the effects are forever and she did not get it until she was eleven years old, so just because a small child is healthy now doesn’t mean that it can’t happen later. I’m not judging you for your decision but with a sister in law who is a RN and has seen severly ill children, she told me its always easy for parents to say things when there children are fine but when they bring them into the ER with a very preventable illness then they blame everyone but themselves.
God Bless
 
I would not make this decision to not vaccinate without tremendous thought and prayer. This issue concerning fetal tissue is very different than the controversy about stem cell research.

I found this article which I think is objective:

immunizationinfo.org/assets/files/pdfs/Moral_Considerations_With_Certain_Viral_Vaccines.pdf

Do you believe that human somatic cell culture can be ethically used for research? Many who are against fetal stem cell research support autologous stem cell research. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the cell cultures that are being used. The issue is that they came from an illicit act. If these cells came from a spontaneous abortion there would not be ethical concerns. This is different from the issue of fetal stem cell research that takes a conceived being and distorts its growth for research. In the case of the fetal cell culture the actual cell cultures are not intrinsically evil but the death of the child was evil. This cell culture could have been obtained from a spontaneously aborted child or an induced abortion. Now we are 30 to 40 years later. What should we do? This is a tough one.

One of the problems is that in order to make new vaccines with different cell cultures a company would have to prove that they are safe and effective. This would take years of research to prove. I don’t think that the ethical issues are cut and dry in this situation.

Also be careful not to mix and match your issues. Some people are anti-vaccine no matter what. They are looking for any additional reason to not vaccinate their children. I think this issue needs to be thought about and prayed on independently to any preconceived notions about vaccination and other disease (such as the claims about autism etc). Remember that your decision about vaccination can have major consequences to you, your children, and other children.

I agree with the above article. I think that we need to use the current vaccinations. We need to insist that in the future companies give no incentive to the abortion industry by using any tissue from aborted children for research. And we need to insist against the use of fetal stem cells for any research.
 
Thank you shemp for doing some of the research that I hadn’t done and explaining that I couldn’t. Your post pulled together many ideas that I hadn’t thought out fully and was very helpful.

Kris
 
I just wanted to point out (as the OP) that I posted this as an FYI. I did not post this to debate vaccination in general, or even the use of these vaccines. I believe parents can do the research, and use their properly formed moral conscience along with their research to make their own decisions, and until the Church takes an official stand on this, parents could go either way with these vaccines. I believe all parents should educate themselves on this issue and not rely on what anyone on a message board provides them (me or Shemp 😉 ).

FTR- Merpk has made available the Mumps and Measles vaccines seperated from the Rubella, so that parents could use those vaccines, without the use of the rubella vax, which is the offender in that series. I have decided not to get my dd’s 5 year rubella vax, and to explain the issue to her as she approached child bearing age, and allow her to decide what she wants to do WRT this vaccines, chicken pox vaccine is a whole other issue, that I won’t get into, suffices to say that my kids don’t get that vaccine.

As I said in the beginning, all of the Catholics I have told about this IRL have been simply appaled, and very angry that they did not know, which shows that we as parents need to take the time to educate ourselves on vaccines, most importantly the diseases they are supposed to protect against. We as parents can’t rely on Dr.s to tell us these things, as an unfortunate number would never see a problem with such an issue 😦 .
 
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jess7396:
I I believe all parents should educate themselves on this issue and not rely on what anyone on a message board provides them (me or Shemp 😉 😦 .
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information.
I understand that whooping cough is making a comeback – I’ve had it myself and it’s awful for adults, but it can be fatal for infants.
So parents do need to think carefully about vaccinations. Deaths from childhood diseases could increase again if people stop vaccinating, as many are doing.
 
Thanks for the links about this: I have a real dilemma about the chickenpox vaccine. I have three children, 12, 11 and 3. The older two have had chickenpox but the youngest has not. Michigan state law requires the chickenpox and other vaccines in order to enroll them in school or daycare. I really don’t want to get the chickenpox vaccine for my youngest for several reasons, including:

the aborted-fetus issue;
the relatively benign effects of chickenpox in children (they say it’s worse for adults to get it, what if the vaccine “wears off” in adulthood?)
the unknown of any sideeffects of the vaccine in future years (it’s a fairly new vaccine, who knows what will happen in the future to those vaccinated)
I am fortunate that our pediatrician and his nurse (also a mom) are against the chickenpox vaccine. However, when I asked her for her advice, the nurse just said she lied when asked by her child’s school/daycare. I don’t feel comfortable with that either.
I also wonder if I am now harming my youngest by not getting her the vaccine. The reason I am wondering is that now that the vaccine is required, the chances of my daughter “catching” chickenpox from a playmate are greatly reduced. (Right now she is at home and we live on six acres. There are no nearby children for her to play with.)
I don’t know if Michigan has a conscience clause in this matter (does anyone here know). Or do you have any advice?
I have considered homeschooling but I really don’t think that is for our family for many reasons.
Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
God bless you and yours,
 
laura

I believe the Children of God for life site has information on state by state exemptions. It is hard, I will be sending my kids to Catholic schools and I do think that while Catholics can in good conscience get these vaccines derived from aborted fetuses, they also should not be forced to use them, and I feel VERY strongly on that. I think our Catholic schools should allow parents a vaccine choice at least on the vaccines made from aborted fetuses.

OFF TOPIC 🙂
Viki-
There is a recent Pertussis (whooping cough) outbreak in my area, pertussis is most dangerous for infants, so, I have decided to use this vaccine earlier than I would have liked (I prefer to wait until at least 6 months to give any vax). As I said, parents should thoroughly research all vaccines and most importantly the diseases they “prevent”- such as the Hep B vaccine for newborns- a pure joke IMNSHO 😃 .
 
“Are vaccines still made this way? Or, was the original strain started and now just replicated in the lab?”

As far as I know (and I have been researching this subject for quite some time since it directly concerns me), there a few types of vaccines which definitely are derived from aborted human fetuses and by using the strains produced from the original tissue would make us “party” to this murderous act.
Anyway, even before I knew this for other reasons I chose not to vaccinate our last 5 children (sadly my first baby had one occasion of this poisonous assault because I didn’t know any better at the time).
If you are bringing new life into this world I strongly urge you to pray and research this issue. I have three cases in my extended family of severe and irreversible reactions to vaccines. Just look at the “ingredients” list you will be shocked!
 
Many good theologians have stated that using cell lines that were originated immorally does not constitute participation in the original act.
 
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