Was Jesus holding Jesus?

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I have a question that I cannot answer. A friend asked me that during the Lord’s Supper, when Jesus said the words of consecration, did the bread He was holding become His flesh, even though He had not yet died and been glorified? That presents a problem if so, since Jesus was bound by an earthly body, and a body cannot exist in two places at once, meaning Jesus could not have been sitting at the table and be holding His flesh at the same time. Also, since Jesus still has a body in heaven, albeit a glorified one, it is still a body, and that prevents Him from being at all the Masses in bodily form. I cannot answer this…help!!!
 
Jesus’ presence when the bread and wine are consecrated is a sacramental one, so yes, he could be present at the Last Supper. Besides this, Jesus’ offering of himself to the Father is eternal, not stuck in time. This means that all those born before Jesus’ Incarnation are saved through Christ’s redemptive death, resurrection and ascension, just as those born afterwards.

Jesus drew on the eternal offering at the Last Supper. We who live within time may have a difficult time understanding how eternal things can be applied within time. But, if they couldn’t be, we couldn’t be saved by Christ’s redemption, either, since it would only have applied to those who lived at the time of the crucifixion.

God’s gifts are eternal, including the Eucharist, which was prefigured in the OT through the sacrifices and the unbloody sacrifice of Melchizedek.
 
Is it your friend’s opinion that Jesus is not God, and therefore cannot do whatever He pleases? :confused:
Della’s answer is correct.
 
I just LOVE Fr. Vincent Serpa’s response to a different version of your friend’s question:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4408628&postcount=2

Now, here’s the thing that I would encourage all Catholics and all non-Catholics to always keep in mind.

When you happen to think of an objection or a difficulty or a problem or some point of confusion with regard to Catholic theology, I absolutely urge you to consider that it’s already been thought of and responded to, and that the Church has a wonderful explanation.

The Catholic Church has produced many great minds and many brilliant theologians. Forgive me, but many people, perhaps like your friend, greatly overestimate the force of their objections while underestimating the Church’s ability to respond to them.

For starters, St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa of Theology, Part 3, Question 75, Article 1:
Objection 3 [THIS IS A POSITION THOMAS WILL REFUTE]. Further, no body can be in several places at the one time. For this does not even belong to an angel; since for the same reason it could be everywhere. But Christ’s is a true body, and it is in heaven. Consequently, it seems that it is not in very truth in the sacrament of the altar, but only as in a sign.
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Reply to Objection 3. Christ’s body is not in this sacrament in the same way as a body is in a place, which by its dimensions is commensurate with the place; but in a special manner which is proper to this sacrament. Hence we say that Christ’s body is upon many altars, not as in different places, but “sacramentally”: and thereby we do not understand that Christ is there only as in a sign, although a sacrament is a kind of sign; but that Christ’s body is here after a fashion proper to this sacrament, as stated above.
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You can read more here: newadvent.org/summa/4075.htm.

For at least 800 years, the Church has been aware of your friend’s position. I would at least urge him to consider that there might be a reason that she doesn’t find it compelling.
 
Exsultet nailed it with the passage from the Summa. Another relevant quote is that of St. Augustine, in his exposition of Psalm 34:

… when He commended His Own Body and Blood, He took into His Hands that which the faithful know; and in a manner carried Himself, when He said, “This is My Body.”

Note, he says *in a manner *carried Himself. The “in a manner” part is explained by St. Thomas in the passage above.

This is more for your own benefit; I wouldn’t use it as an argument from authority unless he already accepts the authority of the Church Fathers.
 
While it’s impossible for me to follow St Thomas Aquinas, I would also like to mention the Trinity

Jesus is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit is God

God the Son was on Earth, in the Upper Room
God the Father was in Heaven
God the Holy Spirit was changing the Bread and Wine to the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ
Plus God the Holy Spirit was most likely else where around the universe too

All of this at the same time. God can be everywhere at once because God is God.

After all, if He can make the Sun dance without destroying the solar system and allow people to stare at the Sun without blinding them; then I’m sure He can hold himself in His own hands. 🙂

God Bless
 
t68ware said:
I have a question that I cannot answer. A friend asked me that during the Lord’s Supper, when Jesus said the words of consecration, did the bread He was holding become His flesh, even though He had not yet died and been glorified? That presents a problem if so, since Jesus was bound by an earthly body, and a body cannot exist in two places at once, meaning Jesus could not have been sitting at the table and be holding His flesh at the same time. Also, since Jesus still has a body in heaven, albeit a glorified one, it is still a body, and that prevents Him from being at all the Masses in bodily form. I cannot answer this…help!!!
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Yes transubstantiation occurred that the Holy Supper. The entire Jesus Christ (divinity, human rational soul, body and blood) are in the Eucharist, not limited to a specific location.
 
Della said:
Jesus’ presence when the bread and wine are consecrated is a sacramental one, so yes, he could be present at the Last Supper. Besides this, Jesus’ offering of himself to the Father is eternal, not stuck in time. This means that all those born before Jesus’ Incarnation are saved through Christ’s redemptive death, resurrection and ascension, just as those born afterwards.

Jesus drew on the eternal offering at the Last Supper. We who live within time may have a difficult time understanding how eternal things can be applied within time. But, if they couldn’t be, we couldn’t be saved by Christ’s redemption, either, since it would only have applied to those who lived at the time of the crucifixion.

God’s gifts are eternal, including the Eucharist, which was prefigured in the OT through the sacrifices and the unbloody sacrifice of Melchizedek.
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What do you mean by “when the bread and wine are consecrated is a sacramental one?”
 
Faith1960 said:
What do you mean by “when the bread and wine are consecrated is a sacramental one?”
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Christ is fully present in a sacramental way. IOW, we cannot see, taste or touch anything that appears to be a body or blood, but they are there, although the accidents of bread and wine remain.
 
Faith1960 said:
What do you mean by “when the bread and wine are consecrated is a sacramental one?”
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I think you’ve already asked this question, months ago, and gotten replies… haven’t you? (I seem to recall this because, as it were, I seem to recall that I answered this very question of yours! 😉 )

The presence of Christ is in a sacramental mode, not a physical one. He is truly present… sacramentally.
 
Gorgias said:
I think you’ve already asked this question, months ago, and gotten replies… haven’t you? (I seem to recall this because, as it were, I seem to recall that I answered this very question of yours! 😉 )

The presence of Christ is in a sacramental mode, not a physical one. He is truly present… sacramentally.
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Yes I did ask it but I still don’t get it. What is a sacramental mode?
 
A body can’t be in multiple places at the same time.
And: a dead body can’t rise to life again.

Yet we believe in the Resurrection.

We believe because we know that what is impossible with men is possible with God.

And we know that Christ is God.

So yes: Christ can be in many places at once.

Praise Him. :highprayer::harp:
 
Faith1960 said:
Yes I did ask it but I still don’t get it. What is a sacramental mode?
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There’s no reason why you should “get it.” It’s not something to be understood, but is a mystery of God, just as the Incarnation and the Resurrection are, as well. The Church uses philosophical terms to attempt to explain Christ’s Eucharistic presence, but in the end, it’s a matter of faith, not merely of intellect. Although, having said that, it’s not against reason nor logic within the context of divine revelation revealed to us in Christ and taught by his Church. The term sacramental mode/presence is merely the term used to tell us that Christ is truly present, body and blood, soul and divinity at the words of consecration.
 
Faith1960 said:
Why is it impossible for you to follow St. Thomas Aquinas?
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LOL – what I meant was that I’m hardly qualified to give my own thoughts after St. Thomas Aquinas because he is simply awesome and far more intelligent and insightful thank I am.

I love his teachings
 
I agree with the explanations already given regarding the presence of the Glorified Body & Blood.

I’d also add this: your friend assumes that a body cannot be in two places at once. Certainly it does not follow natural law, and is only possible through the miraculous power of God. Yet there have been saints who have bilocated, such as Padre Pio. But it would mean that God has the power to do it.

God’s power is not limited to natural laws, nor to our limited human understanding. 😉
 
phil19034 said:
LOL – what I meant was that I’m hardly qualified to give my own thoughts after St. Thomas Aquinas because he is simply awesome and far more intelligent and insightful thank I am.

I love his teachings
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Oh, ok. 🙂
 
Gorgias said:
I think you’ve already asked this question, months ago, and gotten replies… haven’t you? (I seem to recall this because, as it were, I seem to recall that I answered this very question of yours! 😉 )

The presence of Christ is in a sacramental mode, not a physical one. He is truly present… sacramentally.
Click to expand...
Pope Paul VI wrote in 1965:

To avoid misunderstanding this sacramental presence which surpasses the laws of nature and constitutes the greatest miracle of its kind[50] we must listen with docility to the voice of the teaching and praying Church. This voice, which constantly echoes the voice of Christ, assures us that the way Christ is made present in this Sacrament is none other than by the change of the whole substance of the bread into His Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into His Blood, and that this unique and truly wonderful change the Catholic Church rightly calls transubstantiation.[51] As a result of transubstantiation, the species of bread and wine undoubtedly take on a new meaning and a new finality, for they no longer remain ordinary bread and ordinary wine, but become the sign of something sacred, the sign of a spiritual food. However, the reason they take on this new significance and this new finality is simply because they contain a new “reality” which we may justly term ontological. Not that there lies under those species what was already there before, but something quite different; and that not only because of the faith of the Church, but in objective reality, since after the change of the substance or nature of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, nothing remains of the bread and wine but the appearances, under which Christ, whole and entire, in His physical “reality” is bodily present, although not in the same way that bodies are present in a given place.

papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6myster.htm
 
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