Watching My marriage go to Ruins

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DeeplyConcerned

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Hello,
i`m looking for SOUND advice.

Im a Father of 4. Husband to a beautiful wife who has give birth to all 4 of our children Via C-section. im Watching our marriage Crumble…and from the catholic Perspective its due to ME. Which i feel is not fair, but i`m searching for answers so doing pin the Tail just yet.

due to 4 c-sections my wife Although not told by her Midwife Has a very weak/Nil Uterus 😦
the OBGYN took us aside and discussed this matter with US during the last Surgery, and the Midwife was told to do the same LATER in future Check-ups. ( didnt happen ) she was told as was i that another pregnancy would be Possibly lethal to her Existence or any Possible babys.
she has Brough 4 Wonderful beautiful children into our lives 2 girls, and 2 boys.
I dont wish to have her Future on my Concience ( life/death ) i dont and cant bend on my feelings for her and that its time for us to take some Precautions or for me to Directly take some actions as to ensure her LIFE continues not death happens. this has Cause Great Dispair in our married life, as to her it means im not open to life, and to me its I`m not open to KILLING her from Uteran Rupture or the risk there of.

am i being Inconsiderate to her faith ( i know im gonna get blasted ) but i see it this way ....... ( take in account i dont believe in abortion …this is a scenario )
Pregnancy for her can = death = as i see it Murder
is this not the same scenario in some respects, am i then no better than the abortionist, what about the loss i will suffer, and the resentment i may feel twards my kids because of her death.

When, and Where does the Line get Drawn ?
what are the Courses of action we Maybe can take.
it just doesnt seem right that a Faith Built on life and procreation. should be so negative to allow for the Loss of a parent/partner in the Marriage/union relationship. isnt family about the ONE UNIT father/mother, offspring as a whole union ?

im confused as to why? is life no Precious ? i guess the big thing is my wife sees it as if it happens it happens. and i cant accept that. she is a beautiful woman, and has just as might right to life as anyone else…why should i be the cause of her life being Aborted? why can`t we as a couple be allowed to take actions to help stop this?

Please im open to hearing responses and suggestions. im close to seperate rooms, and No contact at all just to save her life, even though it will destroy our marriage.
 
Welcome to the forums DeeplyConcerned. If I may recommend this article here at Catholic Answers: catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9804fea1.asp

With all due respect, YOU don’t get to decide when your wife’s time on this earth might end. If your wife has life threatening health issues, you have serious reason for using NFP indefinitely. You will need to learn all the rules and use a very conservative interpretation. There are many couples who use NFP effectively and some, like you, use it indefinitely.

Please don’t let your marriage be destroyed by contraception. Your current contraceptive mentality is already working against it. Your wife seems to want an OPEN TO LIFE marital embrace. Study NFP. Learn it VERY well. Get a real book on it. Take a class ( www.ccli.org is one group that offers them!) if at all possible. Above all TRUST GOD! He designed our fertility. Let him be in control of it.

Cherish the time you have with your wife. None of us know the hour…
 
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DeeplyConcerned:
Hello,
i`m looking for SOUND advice.

Im a Father of 4. Husband to a beautiful wife who has give birth to all 4 of our children Via C-section. im Watching our marriage Crumble…and from the catholic Perspective its due to ME. Which i feel is not fair, but i`m searching for answers so doing pin the Tail just yet.

due to 4 c-sections my wife Although not told by her Midwife Has a very weak/Nil Uterus
the OBGYN took us aside and discussed this matter with US during the last Surgery, and the Midwife was told to do the same LATER in future Check-ups. ( didnt happen ) she was told as was i that another pregnancy would be Possibly lethal to her Existence or any Possible babys.
she has Brough 4 Wonderful beautiful children into our lives 2 girls, and 2 boys.
I dont wish to have her Future on my Concience ( life/death ) i dont and cant bend on my feelings for her and that its time for us to take some Precautions or for me to Directly take some actions as to ensure her LIFE continues not death happens. this has Cause Great Dispair in our married life, as to her it means im not open to life, and to me its I`m not open to KILLING her from Uteran Rupture or the risk there of.

am i being Inconsiderate to her faith ( i know im gonna get blasted ) but i see it this way ....... ( take in account i dont believe in abortion …this is a scenario )
Pregnancy for her can = death = as i see it Murder
is this not the same scenario in some respects, am i then no better than the abortionist, what about the loss i will suffer, and the resentment i may feel twards my kids because of her death.

When, and Where does the Line get Drawn ?
what are the Courses of action we Maybe can take.
it just doesnt seem right that a Faith Built on life and procreation. should be so negative to allow for the Loss of a parent/partner in the Marriage/union relationship. isnt family about the ONE UNIT father/mother, offspring as a whole union ?

im confused as to why? is life no Precious ? i guess the big thing is my wife sees it as if it happens it happens. and i cant accept that. she is a beautiful woman, and has just as might right to life as anyone else…why should i be the cause of her life being Aborted? why can`t we as a couple be allowed to take actions to help stop this?

Please im open to hearing responses and suggestions. im close to seperate rooms, and No contact at all just to save her life, even though it will destroy our marriage.
Click to expand...
First of all both of you are in my prayers. Find a good orthodox Catholic ob/gyn and counsellor to talk to together.

If you learn more advanced techniques of NFP it is very much as effective as other methods of controlling fertility. And that even includes the more drastic methods such as vasectomy or tubal ligation - remember of course that these fail on a regular basis as well.

Things have come a very long way since the more primitive versions of the rhythm method. We know a lot more about the physical processes and signs that accompany a woman’s cycle, and it’s very possible to reliably predict what stage of her cycle she is in and to control fertility without using methods that are out of sync with the Church’s teaching.

Short answer - no guarantees at all in this life. Certainly no guarantees that your wife won’t get pregnant again, no matter what method of fertility control you use.

On the up side, nothing to say that she cannot successfully come through half-a-dozen more pregnancies. Much stranger things have happened.

The thing is God gave each of you your bodies, and gave each of you to each other in marriage - to fulfil HIS purposes, they take priority over your own. Maybe that includes another pregnancy, probably not.

Remember as well that your wife is an adult, whatever happens to her is not your load to bear - it does happen to be her choice too.
 
I’ll just give you anecdotal support for NFP by saying that my mom was told she should not have anymore children after my younger brother was born for serioushealth reasons, so my parents successfully practiced NFP for ten years until she reached menopause. People seem to not want to do NFP because somehow they believe the it is less successful, but it is infact as successful in preventing pregnancy as the pill.
Finally just on the note of faith, if you really really trust God as it sounds your wife wants only good things will happen and not by how we humans measure, but by God’s measure which is supreme to our’s. God never abandons us and will always work greater goods through any suffering or hardship, but we must totally trust Him. I say try to pray over this with your wife and for the sake of your marriage contact a prolife doctor in your area to learn more about NFP. Atleast give it a chance!
 
You seem to be afraid of NFP. Why? It is 99% effective if used correctly, the same or better than any form of artificial contraception, or even sterilization. Even that is NOT always 100% effective.
Trust GOD! Have faith that He will take care of your family. Do the right thing, then just trust Him. I would be more afraid of going against His will than doing what He wanted in trust.
I too have had many problems in this pregnancy (which will end in a c-section too), and our Dr. is also saying not to get pg again, at least for a year or so. Does that mean we will use artificial means? NO! We will use NFP for a year, then see through prayer and discernment if it is time to try again. But I will not offend God in so grave a matter just because some Dr. says so. I trust Him to take care of us all!
 
Do you love your wife enough to voluntarily abstain from sex while she learns to spot her fertility symptoms? Do you love her enough to voluntarily accept love-making of just 2-4 times per month after that? If so, you can practice an extremely conservative version of NFP that is virtually bullet-proof. The key if for her to have time to learn how her cycle functions and get comfortable knowing when she is fertile. Then add a few days on each side of the normal NFP rules to beef up the safety factor.

It’s a very basic meidcal fact. You can’t get pregnant when you aren’t fertile. That’s all the modern NFP is based upon.

I’ll take some heat for this next comment, but I don’t recommend you just take a normal local NFP course. Your case is serious enough that you should search and find a doctor that practices the Creighton Method and get advanced training and have youe wife and doctor feel very sure that she has a handle on her cycle. Any old doctor will not do. You may have to search and travel a bit for this.

Is your faith and love for your wife up for it? Or do you not care so much and just want a ‘quick fix?’
 
Perhaps before giving into despair it might be productive to visit with a physician specifically about you wife’s current medical condition. It sounds like the last time it was addressed was immediately after he last C-section. Has she been evaluated since then? Have you questioned what birth control options are available that would not vioate your wife’s beliefs yet not endanger her life?

I can’t imagine she is any less interested in protecting her own life than your are. You and she have an affirmative duty to avoid putting her in a situation of peril given the lives of 4 children who are depending upon you. Get as informed as possible of ALL the options and then try an decide TOGETHER which option is the safest and acceptable given your moral beliefs.
 
Get a second opinion from a Catholic OB/GYN! Many drs. use scare tactics such as you describe when the situation in fact is not so dicey. The www.quiverfull.com website has many women on it who have had many more c/s than your dw - some double tht or more. ALL pregnancies have risk. My chance of uterine rupture after my c/s DOUBLED. I was terrified. Then I went to my awesome catholic ob who said, “Yes. It doubled. It went from less than 1% to less than 2%.” Less than that if future c/s are planned. The greatest threat of rupture is during labor. No labor = less chance.
Learn NFP if it soothes the stress and helps you both or you feel a true need for it, but either way you should not let FEAR determine your choices or rule in your marriage.
 
If your wifes uterus is that badly damaged why dont they give her a hysterectomy? I dont believe that the church is against that for medical reasons! I think that if you had an arm or leg that was damaged and could kill you if it wasnt removed the church would not be against that either!
 
Deeply Concerned,

A few questions just for clarity’s sake:

Are you both Catholic?

Have you both taken classes on Natural Family Planning?

Are you both willing to switch to a pro-life OB/GYN?
 
  1. No we are not Both Catholic … she is I`m not …and she Knew that comming into the Marriage.
  2. i would love to have sex 2-4 times a month to be one and Whole with my wife. but that would be More what i c yearly.
  3. NFP is fine…and trust me we have tried it … and its not 100% heck not even 50% for us …as 2 have occured from NFP
    and YES we know how to USE IT … Body temp , mucus flows, etc. we`ve read the books , done the whole temperature taking, etc.
  4. we have 4 beautiful Children , im 28 , she is 23 thats 4 c-sections in 5 years ( do the math ) Not Healthy! and dont tell me i need a second Opinion as i stand in the O.R. Watching them try to find pieces to Sew together and having the doc show me that her Uterus is thinner than Saran Wrap. and as you all know some things only Strech so far.
  5. Unfortunate for us that NFP is the only course of action she is willing to take. and since we know that Doesnt work, we dont know where to turn. as she says i have Super Sperm.
Maybe this was the Wrong place to look for Advice. and the wrong time as well as i`m just feeling beat up on…😦

im trying to talk to a Priest/Doctor who does work with the Pro-life group where im from… hoping he can maybe Spread some light on the issue …

as far as the its her life if she chooses to get Preggy its her call… thats not the case its OUR call … this is Our Union, and i need her just as much as “god” and if it means No sex so be it.
but i`m not about to lose my Wife and my childrens mother.
 
DeeplyConcerned said:
  1. No we are not Both Catholic … she is I`m not …and she Knew that comming into the Marriage.
  2. i would love to have sex 2-4 times a month to be one and Whole with my wife. but that would be More what i c yearly.
  3. NFP is fine…and trust me we have tried it … and its not 100% heck not even 50% for us …as 2 have occured from NFP
    and YES we know how to USE IT … Body temp , mucus flows, etc. we`ve read the books , done the whole temperature taking, etc.
  4. we have 4 beautiful Children , im 28 , she is 23 thats 4 c-sections in 5 years ( do the math ) Not Healthy! and dont tell me i need a second Opinion as i stand in the O.R. Watching them try to find pieces to Sew together and having the doc show me that her Uterus is thinner than Saran Wrap. and as you all know some things only Strech so far.
  5. Unfortunate for us that NFP is the only course of action she is willing to take. and since we know that Doesnt work, we dont know where to turn. as she says i have Super Sperm.
Maybe this was the Wrong place to look for Advice. and the wrong time as well as i`m just feeling beat up on…😦

im trying to talk to a Priest/Doctor who does work with the Pro-life group where im from… hoping he can maybe Spread some light on the issue …

as far as the its her life if she chooses to get Preggy its her call… thats not the case its OUR call … this is Our Union, and i need her just as much as “god” and if it means No sex so be it.
but i`m not about to lose my Wife and my childrens mother.
Click to expand...
I’m certainly sorry if I contributed in any way to you feeling beaten up on. That’s the last thing, I am certain, that any of us intend.

We on this site are mostly faithful Catholics, as is your wife, so we have our own view of things which is going to tend to coincide with hers … it comes with the territory of being Catholic.

And I certainly never said or thought that getting pregnant was her call alone. Of course it isn’t.

A poster above mentioned a hysterectomy. Certainly if her uterus is in such poor condition its an option worth thinking about, and it’s well and truly permissible for sufficient medical reason.
 
DeeplyConcerned said:
Maybe this was the Wrong place to look for Advice. and the wrong time as well as i`m just feeling beat up on…😦

im trying to talk to a Priest/Doctor who does work with the Pro-life group where im from… hoping he can maybe Spread some light on the issue …

as far as the its her life if she chooses to get Preggy its her call… thats not the case its OUR call … this is Our Union, and i need her just as much as “god” and if it means No sex so be it.
but i`m not about to lose my Wife and my childrens mother.
Click to expand...
I’m so sorry you are feeling beat up. You and your lovely wife have been in my prayers since I first read this. Everyone here can sense the deep devotion you have for your wife and your children. I also sense that if you were the only one involved that you would be willing to sacrifice everything for your deep love. (Your willingness to embrace total abstinence is something most Saints are known for.) That is something so admirable, especially in today’s selfish society!

Yes, please seek out an NFP doc and priest. It is very possible that you have sperm that is living a very long time and she may have cervical fluid that is very condusive to sperm life. A partial hysterectomy is possible, so they would only remove her uterus. If that is the only damaged organ, that is the only one that need be removed. Her ovaries would still help with her estrogen and progesterone so she would not be in menopause at 23.

I still will disagree though about whose choice this is. Yes, you as a couple decide with God about pregnancy. But neither of you get to decide the length of time we each have in this life. That is why I recommended that article to you. Many men, most in fact, want to protect their wives at all costs. But we wives still have to live in this life. We are suseptible to viruses in public, we drive cars, we fly in airplanes, we are at risk often.

Pray, and research. And know that you have many people praying for you. May you find peace during this very difficult time. :blessyou:
 
DeeplyConcerned said:
Hello,
i`m looking for SOUND advice.

Im a Father of 4. Husband to a beautiful wife who has give birth to all 4 of our children Via C-section. im Watching our marriage Crumble…and from the catholic Perspective its due to ME. Which i feel is not fair, but i`m searching for answers so doing pin the Tail just yet.

due to 4 c-sections my wife Although not told by her Midwife Has a very weak/Nil Uterus 😦
the OBGYN took us aside and discussed this matter with US during the last Surgery, and the Midwife was told to do the same LATER in future Check-ups. ( didnt happen ) she was told as was i that another pregnancy would be Possibly lethal to her Existence or any Possible babys.
she has Brough 4 Wonderful beautiful children into our lives 2 girls, and 2 boys.
I dont wish to have her Future on my Concience ( life/death ) i dont and cant bend on my feelings for her and that its time for us to take some Precautions or for me to Directly take some actions as to ensure her LIFE continues not death happens. this has Cause Great Dispair in our married life, as to her it means im not open to life, and to me its I`m not open to KILLING her from Uteran Rupture or the risk there of.

am i being Inconsiderate to her faith ( i know im gonna get blasted ) but i see it this way ....... ( take in account i dont believe in abortion …this is a scenario )
Pregnancy for her can = death = as i see it Murder
is this not the same scenario in some respects, am i then no better than the abortionist, what about the loss i will suffer, and the resentment i may feel twards my kids because of her death.

When, and Where does the Line get Drawn ?
what are the Courses of action we Maybe can take.
it just doesnt seem right that a Faith Built on life and procreation. should be so negative to allow for the Loss of a parent/partner in the Marriage/union relationship. isnt family about the ONE UNIT father/mother, offspring as a whole union ?

im confused as to why? is life no Precious ? i guess the big thing is my wife sees it as if it happens it happens. and i cant accept that. she is a beautiful woman, and has just as might right to life as anyone else…why should i be the cause of her life being Aborted? why can`t we as a couple be allowed to take actions to help stop this?

Please im open to hearing responses and suggestions. im close to seperate rooms, and No contact at all just to save her life, even though it will destroy our marriage.
Click to expand...
First of all, get a second opinion. I’m in medical school at the moment which doesn’t make me qualified to conjecture on your wife’s condition, but it has been my experience with physicians in the hospitals that medical opinions can vary GREATLY among physicians. One doctor’s professional medial opinion is just that, his opinion. Get another one just to make sure. You’d be suprised how many times I’ve seen a patient while following doctors around and hear one give a completely different diagnosis.

That being said, if the outlook of your wife was this grave, I’d be in favor of her having tubal ligation surgery to maximize the probability that she would never get pregnant again. I know I’m going to get reamed on here for suggesting that, but in my opinion, you’re wife has done her Catholic obligation to “be fruitful and multiply”. She’s given you and God 4 wonderful children. I don’t see any reason why the Church would be justified in demanding that she risk her life by future pregnancy. Would you rather have 5 children with no mother, or 4 children with their mother? I hate to be that harsh, but uterine rupture can be that serious of a complication. Compound a potential pregnancy with an Obgyn consultation recommending abortion due to high mortality risks and you have a whole 'nother crisis on your hands. I’d recommend finding a good priest to talk to about the matter and be sure to research and verify with the priest, the Churches stance on delicate situations like this because I honestly don’t know what the official ruling would be here.

I’m a fan of NFP (didn’t used to be), but those pregnancy risk statistics would not be satisfactory to me if my wife’s life were on the line. That’s just my 2 cents.

You and your wife will both be in my prayers.

Oh, and like someone else said, try to find a Catholic obstetrician if at all possible. If not, at least get that second opinion.
 
DeeplyConcerned said:
1
3. NFP is fine…and trust me we have tried it … and its not 100% heck not even 50% for us …as 2 have occured from NFP
and YES we know how to USE IT … Body temp , mucus flows, etc. we`ve read the books , done the whole temperature taking, etc.
Click to expand...
I am sorry…but then there is something that either you or your wife is doing wrong or missing!
NFP is very effecitive if used properly…meaning if you know what your doing.
 
Karin said:
I am sorry…but then there is something that either you or your wife is doing wrong or missing!
NFP is very effecitive if used properly…meaning if you know what your doing.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect which is the primary reason that NFP has lower statistics than some other forms of birth control. You are operating under the assumption that all women have the same hormonal and menstrual cycles based on 28 days. This is unfortunately not the case. Fertile windows can vary greatly among women from 2 to as much as 10 days. Women can vary greatly in their hormonal and ovulatory cycles. These cycles are under the influence of other extraneous influences such as stress, diet, etc… Even the woman’s anatomy combined with vaginal/uterine environment can influence the viability of sperm. There’s a great deal of variability.

I ultimately accept the Churches teaching on contraception for the most part. I accept that NFP is a viable alternative form of “birth control”, but people that believe that NFP can approach anywhere near the birth control effectiveness of other forms of contraception are just plain kidding themselves. You can’t get anywhere near those numbers with NFP. That’s not to say NFP isn’t “effective”, but then again “effective” is also a somewhat relative term.
 
BrownR said:
This is incorrect which is the primary reason that NFP has lower statistics than some other forms of birth control. You are operating under the assumption that all women have the same hormonal and menstrual cycles based on 28 days. This is unfortunately not the case. Fertile windows can vary greatly among women from 2 to as much as 10 days. Women can vary greatly in their hormonal and ovulatory cycles. These cycles are under the influence of other extraneous influences such as stress, diet, etc… Even the woman’s anatomy combined with vaginal/uterine environment can influence the viability of sperm. There’s a great deal of variability.

I ultimately accept the Churches teaching on contraception for the most part. I accept that NFP is a viable alternative form of “birth control”, but people that believe that NFP can approach anywhere near the birth control effectiveness of other forms of contraception are just plain kidding themselves. You can’t get anywhere near those numbers with NFP. That’s not to say NFP isn’t “effective”, but then again “effective” is also a somewhat relative term.
Click to expand...
there are many forms of NFP…the one that I have heard is the most reliable (97% if not more) is the Creighton Method…so perhaps the methods they are praciticing are not for them…perhaps they should search a bit harder or wider for another form that would work for them:)
 
**Effectiveness of the System **
**The effectiveness of the Creighton Model System has been extensively studied and a meta-analysis of the system incorporating the data from five separate studies into a composite which includes 1,876 couples over 17,130 couple months of use has been published. These studies all utilizing life-table analysis and an objective assessment of pregnancies, reported the range of the method-effectiveness to avoid pregnancy at the 12th ordinal month to be 98.7 to 99.8 (with the five-study composite 99.5). The use-effectiveness to avoid pregnancy for the same time period ranged from 94.6 to 97.9 and was shown to continually improve over the 14 years of the studies (the five-study composite was 96.8) (Table 15-28). **
creightonmodel.com/effectiveness.htm

More info here… creightonmodel.com/index.html
 
Karin said:
there are many forms of NFP…the one that I have heard is the most reliable (97% if not more) is the Creighton Method…so perhaps the methods they are praciticing are not for them…perhaps they should search a bit harder or wider for another form that would work for them:)
Click to expand...
I know I will get blasted for suggesting this but oh well…

If you are not Catholic OP, why not get a Vascectomy?:confused:

Its not against your religion is it?
 
Damascus said:
I know I will get blasted for suggesting this but oh well…

If you are not Catholic OP, why not get a Vascectomy?:confused:

Its not against your religion is it?
Click to expand...
another option is to just stop having sex…🙂 (no risk of an unwanted /unplanned pregnancy then)
 
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