What are some of the main reasons that people are attracted to the Protestant faith?

[PRmerger]

Yes. After forking over a pretty penny for such a declaration.

Their declaration of nullity said that a marriage “may or may not have existed”.

Methinks your friend may have been pulling your leg.

That sounds, frankly, ridiculous.

I just did a google search for the term “declaration of nullity” and “may or may not have existed.”

And guess how many hits turned up.
And one of them was this thread.

 

[PRmerger]

How generous, they only sometimes charge 1500 dollars for that piece of paper.

The impoverished understanding of the Catholic teaching on annulments that is being demonstrated here is astonishing.

It’s a “piece of paper” only in the same way that your marriage certificate is a “piece of paper”.

Or your college diploma is a “piece of paper”.

 

[PRmerger]

Know a few years later Catholic apologists are constantly asking my NOT to look at what their church actually DOES rather what it SAYS. I know why.

You really don’t think that’s a good paradigm to follow?

Perhaps, then, you ought to join a LDS church, for they are known for doing great good. They don’t smoke. They don’t drink. They don’t see R rated movies.

One would think, however, that what a church SAYS would be of great import.

I think that it gives you great comfort knowing that there are lots of sinners in the Catholic Church, as that relieves the discomfort you may be feeling knowing you left a Church you did not understand correctly.

Incidentally, I guarantee you that there are quite a few sinners in your church as well. So you left a Church full of sinners for another church full of sinners.

You left Jesus because of Judas.

I don’t think that’s a very good paradigm for a Christian to follow.

(And please note, in the analogy I am not making any comment about whether Jesus is still present in Lutheran churches. Of course He is. But leaving the Body of Christ, the Catholic Church, because of Judases is as misguided as leaving Christ because of Judas.)

What’s going to happen, HH, is that you’re going to see lots of sinners in your own church denomination (it’s just the human way–we sin), and since you don’t believe it’s a good idea to follow a church based on what she teaches, but rather on how good her members act, you’re going to leave this Lutheran church in a few years and church shop for another church whose members appear more holy.

That’s a treacherous path to mold oneself into.

 

[PRmerger]

$1500 is a lot. But let’s remember, too, that an annulment is not a sacrament and is not something that is guaranteed. In addition, in order for an annulment to take place, it takes actual employees of the diocese to handle the processing, time, costs, etc. of handling an annulment case. Those employees have to earn a living, too. They aren’t clergy.

Indeed.

 

[PRmerger]

Again the faith as written on paper is different than how it’s actually practiced.

No one here ought to disagree with you on that.

However, abusus non tollit usum.

 

[GKC]

Their declaration of nullity said that a marriage “may or may not have existed”.

Methinks your friend may have been pulling your leg.

That sounds, frankly, ridiculous.

I just did a google search for the term “declaration of nullity” and “may or may not have existed.”

And guess how many hits turned up.
And one of them was this thread.

My understanding of a decree of nullity centers on the 16th century concept. Perhaps something changed. But a decree of nullity, AFAIK, must state that there was no sacramentally valid marriage, in the case being considered. Or it is not a decree of nullity.

Always glad to learn more, if this is not still the case.

GKC

 

[PRmerger]

If a stranger asked where the nearest Roman Catholic Church is I would point them towards a church of your denomination.

If they asked where the nearest Evangelical Catholic Church is I would point them towards a church of my denomination.

If someone asked you where is the nearest Catholic Church, and you directed him to your church, we all know he wouldn’t be happy.

Even so if Augustine were a bishop in your denomination today, he would censored a disciplined by the denomination. He definitely didn’t believe much of what the denomination believes today.

Another uninformed statement about Catholicism.

 

[PRmerger]

My understanding of a decree of nullity centers on the 16th century concept. Perhaps something changed. But a decree of nullity, AFAIK, must state that there was no sacramentally valid marriage, in the case being considered. Or it is not a decree of nullity.

Always glad to learn more, if this is not still the case.

GKC

Egg-zactly.

So for someone to state that her declaration of nullity declared that a marriage “may or may not have existed” is just plain gaga lala nonsense.

 

[House_Harkonnen]

You really don’t think that’s a good paradigm to follow?

Perhaps, then, you ought to join a LDS church, for they are known for doing great good. They don’t smoke. They don’t drink. They don’t see R rated movies.

One would think, however, that what a church SAYS would be of great import.

I think that it gives you great comfort knowing that there are lots of sinners in the Catholic Church, as that relieves the discomfort you may be feeling knowing you left a Church you did not understand correctly.

Incidentally, I guarantee you that there are quite a few sinners in your church as well. So you left a Church full of sinners for another church full of sinners.

You left Jesus because of Judas.

I don’t think that’s a very good paradigm for a Christian to follow.

(And please note, in the analogy I am not making any comment about whether Jesus is still present in Lutheran churches. Of course He is. But leaving the Body of Christ, the Catholic Church, because of Judases is as misguided as leaving Christ because of Judas.)

What’s going to happen, HH, is that you’re going to see lots of sinners in your own church denomination (it’s just the human way–we sin), and since you don’t believe it’s a good idea to follow a church based on what she teaches, but rather on how good her members act, you’re going to leave this Lutheran church in a few years and church shop for another church whose members appear more holy.

That’s a treacherous path to mold oneself into.

Not because we sin. We all sin and we acknowledge it every Sunday. But if I had another kid and my church tried to bilk me out of money for a sacrament again, I probably would leave to find a place where they give freely because they have freely received.

 

[GKC]

Egg-zactly.

So for someone to state that her declaration of nullity declared that a marriage “may or may not have existed” is just plain gaga lala nonsense.

So it would seem, from the info available.

Unless there is something going on I don’t understand.

GKC

 

[Sy_Noe]

I know what your denomination says and what it does are very different things. On paper it all looks good but in real life they are charging folks exorbitant amounts of cash for annulments and even baptisms.

On paper it says they can never charge for a sacrament.

In real life they were trying to charge me 150 dollars for to baptize my daughter. When I asked why the charge, it was because I had stopped volunteering (I used to be a lector and KOFC). Since I was “giving anything back to the parish”, I would have to pay for my daughters sacrament of baptism. I said I had stopped volunteering because my other two daughters that I adopted were special needs and I need to spend all my time taking care of them. They grudgingly agreed to lower the charge to a mere 50 dollars, generous isn’t it?

Know a few years later Catholic apologists are constantly asking my NOT to look at what their church actually DOES rather what it SAYS. I know why.

Thankfully a local Lutheran minister agreed to baptize my daughter entirely free of charge.

Freely you have received so freely give.

Not a Baptism but about 5 yrs ago I went to my local Catholic parish to schedule a Mass intention. I had $10 which was sent to me by someone out of state wanting me to schedule the Mass. But the parish wouldn’t accept the $10. I had to add another $5.

 

[PRmerger]

Not because we sin. We all sin and we acknowledge it every Sunday. But if I had another kid and my church tried to bilk me out of money for a sacrament again, I probably would leave to find a place where they give freely because they have freely received.

That’s a BIG MISTAKE, HH. Big mistake.

You ought to find the Church that Christ established, and then conform your views to this Church.

And ignore the bad behavior of all individuals in this Church, and love them back into correctly following the teachings of this Church.

I knew you didn’t leave because of doctrinal issues.

 

[Babylonianlove]

My experience of working 7 years for a Protestant:
-very aggressive on getting you to attend Worshipping group at home(done to me constantly for 2-3years)
-They appear to be very friendly to you and their Protestants
-They talk down on other religions, even invite ex-religion person to give hatred testimony so you feel “right” to join them
-They are available to discuss with you shamelessly anywhere anytime even it meant you use their work time

• my culture, they become more and more aggressive on evangelizing Unlike Catholic

*NONE of the Catholics I know have that “fire” to talk about their faith.
I walked into a church and learn all by myself.
Yup.

 

[House_Harkonnen]

That’s a BIG MISTAKE, HH. Big mistake.

You ought to find the Church that Christ established, and then conform your views to this Church.

And ignore the bad behavior of all individuals in this Church, and love them back into correctly following the teachings of this Church.

I knew you didn’t leave because of doctrinal issues.

Any church bilking folks out of money for sacraments is not the church that Christ established. And my views will never, ever concede that this practice is of God of holy. No matter what the denomination says. Most folks I talked to saw no problem with it and gladly forked over 150 dollars for a sacrament for their kids. I even talked to four different priests and a bishop who saw no problem with selling the sacrament of baptism.

Also, how much wickedness must I accept to tow the line? On paper it looks great, reality is much different. That’s why I am constantly being asked to go with what’s on paper, not what the denomination actually does.

Also, it’s not the reason I left, only one aspect of a much bigger picture.

 

[PRmerger]

The very application of sola scriptura is a practice of Church leaders, not individuals. If I wish to be and remain Lutheran,I have no more the power to redefine or reinterpret the Lutheran belief regarding the real presence than you do the Catholic understanding of said.
Sola scriptura is not individual interpretation. We are bound to the teachings of the Church.

Jon

Yet Fr. Luther permitted himself to do this?

I mean no disrespect to Martin Luther, but it would appear that what you are professing above is exactly what he did to the magisterium.

 

[PRmerger]

The evangelical Catholics of the time, including Luther, would probably say that he did no such thing, but instead recalled the teachings of the early Church Catholic. One can dispute whether or not they did, but that is what I suspect they would say.

This, then, gives permission for every single Lutheran (and, indeed, all of us here on the CAFs in dialogue with Lutherans) to say that what they are professing individually actually is recalling the teaching of the early Church Catholic.

It just leaves everything open to one’s individual interpretation.

 

[PRmerger]

Not because we sin. We all sin and we acknowledge it every Sunday. But if I had another kid and my church tried to bilk me out of money for a sacrament again, I probably would leave to find a place where they give freely because they have freely received.

I have really tried to be tolerant to reasons why folks leave the Catholic Church, but the above is simply, without doubt, the most face-palm-inducing reason of all.

Let me just be clear: you are saying that you believe it is perfectly acceptable to leave the Catholic Church because a pastor charged a fee for your child’s baptism?

EDIT: or would you only find it acceptable if it was the “final straw”?

 

[Peter_J]

I’m about to do the same. Threads aren’t any fun when one’s legitimate responses to questions are ignored. Repeatedly. Again and again.

Well, I’ve been there … though not in the case of this particular thread. I just can’t seem to “get into” the recent portion of the thread – I think that, each time I ask my brain to read it, my brain thinks I’m asking it to read a reality TV show transcript. Odd, right?

 

[PRmerger]

Not because we sin. We all sin and we acknowledge it every Sunday. But if I had another kid and my church tried to bilk me out of money for a sacrament again, I probably would leave to find a place where they give freely because they have freely received.

Incidentally, if you knew your faith better, you could have told your priest, “I am a Catholic. I plan to raise my children Catholic. You cannot deny me my child’s baptism. I refuse to pay you the fee.”

Your child would have still been baptized.

It’s the teaching of the Church.

Which you should have known.

Especially since you said you were a “Catholic apologist”.

I used that canard too as a Catholic apologist

 

[PRmerger]

Any church bilking folks out of money for sacraments is not the church that Christ established. And my views will never, ever concede that this practice is of God of holy. No matter what the denomination says. Most folks I talked to saw no problem with it and gladly forked over 150 dollars for a sacrament for their kids. I even talked to four different priests and a bishop who saw no problem with selling the sacrament of baptism.

Just curious, HH. When you daughter wants to get married will you leave your church for selling the sacrament of marriage?

*Please note: this is a hypothetical. So I hope to pre-empt any irrelevant comments like, “I only have sons” or “My daughter doesn’t plan to get married.”