What are thoughts and where do they reside when not in awareness?

[Robert_Sock]

Most psychologists would reckon that thoughts reside somewhere in the unconscious mind when we are not immediately aware of them. Psychologists have been looking at where thoughts reside in the brain for a long, long time and basically found where a thought triggers a small number of neurons, but most interestingly, when these neurons are destroyed, the thought simply pops up somewhere else. Destroy these cells too, and again the thought would move a another set of neurons. One theory that I propose is that cognition comes largely through an external source, the soul; the soul of which is constantly being made anew, by God.

Imagine showing a television to a lost tribe of people who have had no contact with the outside world. Now try explaining to them that the picture and sound of the television comes from broadcasting companies. The tribal people would probably look at you like you were nuts, insisting that the sound and picture were originating from within the television set itself.

Now, rethink where the mind comes from; might it be that this is the working of spirits that originate from afar, with each of us on a separate channel, and not merely a product of our brain? And, just as the picture of the TV would be disrupted through a malfunction, so too with the brain.

Maybe just a coincidence, but it’s interesting to note that human beings make great television antennas. Think about it, how is it that TV and radio signals pass through the human body?

Are we passive receptors of our mind, via the Spirit of God? This is profound, with lots of implications, but I do believe so. Implicit in such a notion, the self is merely an illusion within our mind. And, anyone who thinks about it, the entire ‘self’ is indeed an illusion; the self is neither physical nor real.

“Vanity of vanities! All is vanity. What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun? That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one might say, ‘See this, it is new’? Already it has existed for ages which were before us. There is no remembrance of earlier things, and also of the later things which will occur; there will be for them no remembrance among those who will come later still.”
–Ecclesiastes 1:2-3, 7-11

(Sorry for the haphazard post, but I think that these “thoughts” deserve some pondering)

 

[Bradski]

The analogy should be a computer, not a TV. Everything happens ‘inside the box’. Albeit with information about the external world received via various methods.

Thoughts are simply the programme running, sifting the information being received together with that already in storage (memory). So if your body sends a signal to your brain that it is thirsty, it runs through the options for satisfying that need and picks the best one. In other words, you make a decision.

Shall I have a whisky? No, it’s only 8:00am.
Shall I have a coffee? Well, I could but there is none available.
Shall I drink water? Good idea. I’m already in the kitchen so that would be easy to arrange.

No need for a soul in that process. And all processes are essentially the same.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Psychologists have been looking at where thoughts reside in the brain for a long, long time and basically found where a thought triggers a small number of neurons, but most interestingly, when these neurons are destroyed, the thought simply pops up somewhere else.

A metaphor I often have heard used is that of holographic memory. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s much exoteric knowledge of holograms work/behave so this may be a lost metaphor. But if you had a hologram of a car and you broke it in half you would still be able to see the image of the car in either half of the hologram. It’s almost like looking through a window. If you were to paint half the window and make it inaccessible it is still possible to peer out through the unpainted half. While a perspective is still available you would not be able to view the scene from the parts of the perspective that have been painted over.

Holograms work this way because there’s not a specific part of a holographic plate that stores a specific part of the image of the object being viewed. Rather the view of each part of the scene is distributed over the holographic plate. Information is lost of part of the plate is taken away, but not from specific areas of the car the was holographed.

That metaphor is probably lost, but if information is stored distributed and not packaged in discrete packets it’s possible to destroy part of the storage medium and still retain meaningful information.

It’s also worth noting that memory recall may be in part a reconstructive process; you may remember some things and fill in the gaps with imagination and what might seem to make sense.

Imagine showing a television to a lost tribe of people who have had no contact with the outside world. Now try explaining to them that the picture and sound of the television comes from broadcasting companies. The tribal people would probably look at you like you were nuts, insisting that the sound and picture were originating from within the television set itself.

You could explain it to them, and they may be able to understand. But I think the approach you are mentioning skips developing familiarity with what I’ll call foundational concepts of how broadcast works. If you took these same people and started off teaching them and demonstrating the basics of optics with a camera obscura. What if you showed them that some things can be changed with exposure to light? Perhaps something they already realize if their skin has been exposed to UV rays for too long. You could then begin to teach them how a photographic film camera works. The technologies used for TV broadcast were developed over hundreds of years. You won’t be able to explain them in a single conversation with lots of contextually relevant and foundational information missing.

 

[hazcompat]

Before the word is spoken. Where the word is begotten. (Martin Buber).

Peace

 

[GEddie]

Thoughts reside in our heads, because that is where we think from.

When a thought is let go of, it may just be forgotten, or may reappear at another time, we just don’t know. If we don’t recall it, we don’t remember having had it.

Our head is just as vulnerable to entropy, sadly, as the rest of our body.

ICXC NIKA

 

[RPRPsych]

Thoughts reside in our heads, because that is where we think from.

When a thought is let go of, it may just be forgotten, or may reappear at another time, we just don’t know. If we don’t recall it, we don’t remember having had it.

Our head is just as vulnerable to entropy, sadly, as the rest of our body.

ICXC NIKA

A thought is simply the output of one or more computational processes within the brain.

Of course, for this output to reach conscious awareness requires a separate set of procedures.

As for where it resides - if it’s fortunate enough to be stored in memory, it resides there (in a format that can be re-read later). Otherwise, pretty much what you said.

 

[SecretCatholic]

I would make a distinction between the mind and the brain as well as thoughts and neural activity. Even on the entirely materialistic responses made here so far, we can make a distinction between sections of a magnetic platter on a hard drive and software. I would argue that even if you isolated the physical space where the software is being re-presented on the hard drive, that would not the software itself. In fact, I argue that ultimately you need an actual mind to re-cognize the software, just as you would need a mind to re-cognize the text on a piece of paper.

In other words, I don’t think a thought is a thought until it is recognized by a transcendent, non-material mind. It seems pretty clear that the brain is part of the apparatus which helps us recognize and organize information in the the physical world. But remember that the angels have minds, but no brains. Of course, they do not reside in the physical world as such and so have no need for brains. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that angels have no “thoughts”, although admittedly, the understanding of some philosophers is that this is a different process in purely spiritual beings.

Be careful with both purely-spiritual and purely-materialistic interpretations, as we are body-soul composites, with both natures.

 

[GEddie]

But even your nonmaterial mind and it’s thoughts reside in your human head. In human life, the physical and “spiritual” are inextricable.

Indeed, while a head consists of skullbone, neurons, axons, synapses, glions and blood vessels, etc., a mind consists of perceptions, thoughts, memories, subconscious processing, action commands to the body, and (while sleeping) dreams, etc. The two systems are not the same. But they seem the same because they are so inextricably bound.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Robert_Sock]

But even your nonmaterial mind and it’s thoughts reside in your human head. In human life, the physical and “spiritual” are inextricable.

Indeed, while a head consists of skullbone, neurons, axons, synapses, glions and blood vessels, etc., a mind consists of perceptions, thoughts, memories, subconscious processing, action commands to the body, and (while sleeping) dreams, etc. The two systems are not the same. But they seem the same because they are so inextricably bound.

ICXC NIKA

Maybe, but I believe that we really are not these bodies, and that thoughts do not originate in the mind. We are made in the image and likeness of God, meaning that it is really God who provides the thoughts, and we get act or not act on them, as we please. To believe that our mind is just a product of the brain is a very common belief, but “science” has yet to provide much evidence.

 

[Richca]

Most psychologists would reckon that thoughts reside somewhere in the unconscious mind when we are not immediately aware of them. Psychologists have been looking at where thoughts reside in the brain for a long, long time and basically found where a thought triggers a small number of neurons, but most interestingly, when these neurons are destroyed, the thought simply pops up somewhere else. Destroy these cells too, and again the thought would move a another set of neurons. One theory that I propose is that cognition comes largely through an external source, the soul; the soul of which is constantly being made anew, by God.

Imagine showing a television to a lost tribe of people who have had no contact with the outside world. Now try explaining to them that the picture and sound of the television comes from broadcasting companies. The tribal people would probably look at you like you were nuts, insisting that the sound and picture were originating from within the television set itself.

Now, rethink where the mind comes from; might it be that this is the working of spirits that originate from afar, with each of us on a separate channel, and not merely a product of our brain? And, just as the picture of the TV would be disrupted through a malfunction, so too with the brain.

Maybe just a coincidence, but it’s interesting to note that human beings make great television antennas. Think about it, how is it that TV and radio signals pass through the human body?

Are we passive receptors of our mind, via the Spirit of God? This is profound, with lots of implications, but I do believe so. Implicit in such a notion, the self is merely an illusion within our mind. And, anyone who thinks about it, the entire ‘self’ is indeed an illusion; the self is neither physical nor real.

(Sorry for the haphazard post, but I think that these “thoughts” deserve some pondering)

Human beings have both intellectual knowledge and sensory knowledge. Intellectual knowledge (universals) resides in the immaterial and spiritual faculty of the soul called the intellect. This knowledge is not in any part of the body but it is in the spiritual intellect. The sensory powers of the soul such as the imagination use some corporeal organ of the body for their work. Sensory knowledge (particulars) resides in both (I believe this is correct according to St Thomas Aquinas) the sensory power of the soul and some corporeal organ of the body such as the brain.

 

[GEddie]

Maybe, but I believe that we really are not these bodies, and that thoughts do not originate in the mind. We are made in the image and likeness of God, meaning that it is really God who provides the thoughts, and we get act or not act on them, as we please. To believe that our mind is just a product of the brain is a very common belief, but “science” has yet to provide much evidence.

We are our bodies; and while thought may not entirely be a product of our human head, it, and the mind, require that head to hold and express them.

ICXC NIKA

 

[fisherman_carl]

Our bodies will die. However, is not who we are, our essence, our conscious mind? If not that, then what? What is our true essence? It must be our minds. Thus, if we survive death of the body as Jesus promised then what survives, but our minds. Otherwise, there would be no us to survive. If any part of you survives, but not your mind, then you have not really survived. If the thing that identifies you as you, as an I or a person is lost then you have not survived. Some aspect of you may survive, but you as a person has not.

The firing of neurons is not a thought it is merely the firing of neurons. There is no combination of neurons that physically represents the concept of neurons. The brain is an interface for the mind, but without a mind it would be like a computer with no programmer.

It’s no accident that computers and programmers go together. For they both evolved together, one with the other. A computer without a programmer is useless. As the computer itself was designed to be programmed by a programmer. Everything it does is to execute the programmer’s functions.

The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
(Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)