What do you think of this reasoning about Hell?

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I recently listened to a group of seminarians on a Catholic Talk Radio program discussing the “why” of the existence of Hell. The answer made me almost laugh. Is this truly what they’re teaching our future priests now? The discussion went like this:

God created Hell, with its eternal suffering and horrible punishments, because he loves us so much. He wants us to be with him forever. To encourage us to follow the straight and narrow path to him, and to assure we will be with him for eternity, he has made the alternate so bad that we will have an easier time avoiding it to be with him. This is a concept only a deranged mind could dream up.

To me this reasoning is equivalent to saying Hitler loved the Jews so much that he created the concentration camps and gas ovens to encourage them to give up their ways and convert to Christianity or maybe emigrate to a place where they would enjoy peace and bliss forever.
 
I agree, it’s not a good argument. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels, not for mankind. It was only after the fall that humans could be in danger of going to hell. I have to wonder who is teaching the seminarians this idea. It’s a poor teacher if that is what they are being taught. I rather suspect one or more of them came up with this idea on their own or they are radical traditionalist who believe some very odd things in opposition to authentic Church teachings. In any case, this doesn’t really fly–I agree with you.
 
That sounds like an extended version of “the fear of punishment can motivate us to do good.” I would not say that is why hell exists, but it is certainly true, as far as it goes, that hell can serve that purpose.

Rather, I would say that Hell exists because we are able to choose to defy and turn from God, and it is “so bad,” because it is as separated from God as it is possible to be - and God is goodness itself, meaning that being in hell means being separated from all that is good.
 
Iron_Donkey said:
Rather, I would say that Hell exists because we are able to choose to defy and turn from God, and it is “so bad,” because it is as separated from God as it is possible to be - and God is goodness itself, meaning that being in hell means being separated from all that is good.
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I would go on to say that if union of God is ultimately what we are designed for and is what will fulfill us completely, then not getting to that point is rather depressing and “bad.”

Catholics also do believe in variable punishment in hell, depending on the extent of a person’s sins. Some may only exist eternally without the beatific vision. Others may be in for quite a rough time. Though time as we normally think of it, to my knowledge, wouldn’t apply. It’s not eternal in the sense of an infinite number of years experienced, but in a different sense.

That’s getting off topic, though. My apologies.
 
Not hearing the discussion, I have no idea if you captured the spirit of it in 1 paragraph.

I wouldn’t say Hell was created because God loves us, since it is supposedly an eternal residence for the creation which chooses to not love God. Seems more like a necessity because of the freedom built into creation.

(edit: cut somewhat unrelated paragraph, not to the topic’s specificity)

But, people come to faith though all sorts of ways.

Perhaps their target audience were those folks who don’t really think there is a Hell, or that it’s not that bad.

I don’t think your analogy is apples to apples. I wouldn’t compare hitler to God.

Take care,

Mike
 
It sounds like first year seminarians to me that you were listening to.
 
Even if Hell were only that town in Michigan 🙂 :), if it meant missing out for ever on our LORD’s embrace, it would be worth avoiding. IMNAAHO.

We need to remember that most of what we think we know regarding Hell is ultimately pious imagination.

ICXC NIKA
 
I don’t believe a loving God could put his children in hell, no matter how badly they behaved.
 
A priest told me one time that hell a the absence of God. Where did God say" I will send you to hell?" I can be enlightened and always willing to learn. Peace.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
A priest told me one time that hell a the absence of God.
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This is a necessary quality of Hell. Hell is, ultimately, the complete separation from God for eternity. Humans who go there do so because they have chosen themselves over God. God will not force them to be in His presence; if someone rejects God then He will allow this rejection. Unfortunately for these people, since God is the source of all “good,” removing themselves from His presence is by necessity to remove themselves from all good.
Where did God say" I will send you to hell?" I can be enlightened and always willing to learn. Peace.
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From The Hell there is! (A tract from Catholic Answers)
But the eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, “*t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.” And in Revelation 14:11, we read: “And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
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Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few” (Matt. 7:13–14). *
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Hell exists, and if Jesus is warning us about it then we must, by necessity, believe that it is possible for us to wind up there. Otherwise, Christ would not bother warning us about it.
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If you’d like further reading on the subject, just do a search on the main site. It is a very common topic of discussion, and there are lots of resources on the subject available for free.
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ProdglArchitect said:
This is a necessary quality of Hell. Hell is, ultimately, the complete separation from God for eternity. Humans who go there do so because they have chosen themselves over God. God will not force them to be in His presence; if someone rejects God then He will allow this rejection. Unfortunately for these people, since God is the source of all “good,” removing themselves from His presence is by necessity to remove themselves from all good.

From The Hell there is! (A tract from Catholic Answers)

Hell exists, and if Jesus is warning us about it then we must, by necessity, believe that it is possible for us to wind up there. Otherwise, Christ would not bother warning us about it.

If you’d like further reading on the subject, just do a search on the main site. It is a very common topic of discussion, and there are lots of resources on the subject available for free.
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Thanks. Always open to learning more about my faith. No, I am not a new Catholic. I should have had a better grounding.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Thanks. Always open to learning more about my faith. No, I am not a new Catholic. I should have had a better grounding.
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No worries, most of this stuff I’ve learned from being on these forums and listening to CA. I had a very solid Catholic upbringing, and I could recite tons of facts about the faith and the Bible, but I never really internalized it until I became an adult and had a bit of a “come to God” moment. Now, the more I learn the more I want to know ^^ It’s never to late to start!
 
laocmo said:
I recently listened to a group of seminarians on a Catholic Talk Radio program discussing the “why” of the existence of Hell. The answer made me almost laugh. Is this truly what they’re teaching our future priests now? The discussion went like this:

God created Hell, with its eternal suffering and horrible punishments, because he loves us so much. He wants us to be with him forever. To encourage us to follow the straight and narrow path to him, and to assure we will be with him for eternity, he has made the alternate so bad that we will have an easier time avoiding it to be with him. This is a concept only a deranged mind could dream up.

To me this reasoning is equivalent to saying Hitler loved the Jews so much that he created the concentration camps and gas ovens to encourage them to give up their ways and convert to Christianity or maybe emigrate to a place where they would enjoy peace and bliss forever.
Click to expand...
Hell is just the fulfillment of our free choice to be without God. Hell is, in a sense, a respectful answer to our volitional act to choose other than God. We simmer in our own misery. CS Lewis talks about how people create their own misery. A man freely chooses to neglect his children, thus forfeiting the joys of fatherhood. A daughter freely chooses to stop talking to her mother out of spite, thus forfeiting the joys of a loving familial relationship. A person freely chooses to neglect God, thus forfeiting eternal happiness. People choose their own misery. So hell is the realm for those who want to choose their ultimate misery.

The depiction of hell you gave is something that goes contrary to our free will. It’s essentially holding a gun to our head and saying, “you better make sure you do what I want you to do or you’re going to suffer for it.” This is a view that a lot of fundamentalists hold.
 
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