What happens to souls at the end of time who aren't perfect?

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MCPFgrace

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My understanding is that at the end of time, there will be no more Purgatory; however, only perfection can enter Heaven. So in short, what happens to the souls on the last day that “would’ve gone to purgatory” or “weren’t yet perfect” (so pretty much the grand majority of souls)?

Do they have to go to Hell for eternity starting on the day of judgment, even if they were almost pure/perfect/Saintly but weren’t quite perfected yet since there is no longer time for purification/perfection?

If so, and since the end of the world could happen at any time, that seems kind of (but not quite, perhaps?) to contradict the idea that we can always be saved / the divine help is always with us enough for the salvation of our soul.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
 
I imagine they would still be made clean before obtaining the beatific vision.
 
Those “in life” who are also alive at the coming of Christ
  • can be transformed in but a moment…
See Paul: 1 Corinthians 15:52
 
MCPFgrace said:
My understanding is that at the end of time, there will be no more Purgatory; however, only perfection can enter Heaven. So in short, what happens to the souls on the last day that “would’ve gone to purgatory” or “weren’t yet perfect” (so pretty much the grand majority of souls)?

Do they have to go to Hell for eternity starting on the day of judgment, even if they were almost pure/perfect/Saintly but weren’t quite perfected yet since there is no longer time for purification/perfection?

If so, and since the end of the world could happen at any time, that seems kind of (but not quite, perhaps?) to contradict the idea that we can always be saved / the divine help is always with us enough for the salvation of our soul.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
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They will still have their purgatory. Purgatory is outside of time; God knows how to take care of this.
 
porthos11 said:
They will still have their purgatory. Purgatory is outside of time; God knows how to take care of this.
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I totally agree, He certainly will, as well as a lot of other things we try to explain our way. God Bless, Memaw
 
I just assumed they would go into the nutribullet for Universe 2, the sequal…

Those to be saved will be saved, those who won’t, won’t. One cannot know the deatils of that plan!
 
Wesrock said:
I imagine they would still be made clean before obtaining the beatific vision.
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Bookcat said:
Those “in life” who are also alive at the coming of Christ
  • can be transformed in but a moment…
See Paul: 1 Corinthians 15:52
Click to expand...
Thar is my assumption too. God can burn away the vestiges of filth with a single thought. I can simply trust the Lord’s mercy and if I don’t get to behold the beatific vision then it was through my own choices.I won’t worry about what I cannot control, but will simply work to amend my life and repent that I may fall asleep in the friendship of Christ.
 
I don’t see how purgation as outside of time conflicts with Church teaching.

I’ve seen as much in a book on theology (pre V2, but to my knowledge, V2 didn’t address the issue).

Time is impossible without physical matter in any case.

ICXC NIKA
 
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.
(CCC 1031) (St. Gregory the Great)
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Those “in life” who are also alive at the coming of Christ
  • can be transformed in but a moment…
See Paul: 1 Corinthians 15:52
 
Where does.it say Purgatory will.cease at the Apocalypse of the temporary world?
Will the souls who die.on the Last Day not surely enter Purgatory if they are not spotless enough for Heaven yet
 
Neofight said:
This arguably is bad theology, but certainly contrary to Catholic teaching.
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You’re gonna have to tell me what it’s contrary to.

Because it isn’t said anywhere that purgatory will end with the end of the world. What we know is that nothing unclean can enter heaven, but God provides the state of purification for those who are still imperfect but in a state of grace. One can easily come to a reasonable conclusion based on Scripture and Tradition that Purgatory will end when the last soul leaves it, not necessarily at the end of the world.

So go ahead. Cite your sources. If I’m contrary to Catholic teaching, you can surely tell me what I’m contrary to.
 
Purgatory is not “outside of time” only God is outside of time. Time is a measure of change, and hence wherever there is change (like in Purgatory) there is time.
 
I would assume that any soul that would have gone to Purgatory, if at the end of time cannot go to Purgatory, would be purified some other way and admitted to Heaven with everyone else. The only way they’d be condemned is if they were in a state of mortal sin, and if they’d have gone to Purgatory, that wouldn’t be the case regardless.
 
Bookcat said:
Those “in life” who are also alive at the coming of Christ
  • can be transformed in but a moment…
See Paul: 1 Corinthians 15:52
Click to expand...
Here!

Tis right in Sacred Scripture…

in the* twinkling of an eye* they will be transformed!

GLORIFIED Body - RESURRECTION.
 
Neofight said:
This arguably is bad theology, but certainly contrary to Catholic teaching.
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At first blush, I was going to agree that you’ve made an unsupportable assertion, but on second thought, there might be some real interesting discussion to be had here! Not that I agree that the original statement is “contrary to Catholic teaching” – I’ll be interested to see that citation of magisterial teaching – but the “outside time” assertion (while reasonable), might be irrelevant here.

After all, time is a measure of change of physical objects. There was no ‘time’, per se, prior to creation. Likewise, when a human dies, their physical body and soul separate, and their physical body decays. The body doesn’t experience purgation – only the soul does. Therefore, since there is no physical extension to the soul, there can’t be ‘time’ as we think of it. So, it would be more accurate to describe purgation as a ‘process’ than as something that happens in a ‘place’ for a given ‘duration’. (Any explanation of Purgatory as a place that happens over a period of time is, at best, an analogy that is made to help us (who are physical and time-bound) understand it.)

However, at the end of the world, when we have our glorified bodies, we will be outside of ‘time’; that is, we will have entered ‘eternity’, which is not so much an ‘endless sequence of periods of time’ as it is an ‘eternal now’. That being said, we nevertheless will have physical extension, as we’ll have our glorified bodies.

So, how can we speak of ‘purgation’ in this context? A few possibilities immediately come to mind: immediately prior to reception of their glorified bodies – and “in the blink of an eye”, as has been noted here! – perhaps those who are alive at the end of time will experience an unembodied state which will allow them to experience purgation in the way that (some of) the dead had experienced it. Alternately, perhaps they’ll experience purgation in their glorified bodies in a way similar to others, but we aren’t privy to how that works. Or, perhaps they’ll not experience it in a way similar to others, but will be purged nevertheless (again, though, we don’t know how that works).

In any case, none of these seem to contradict Catholic teaching (although they do force us to think a bit about ‘time’, ‘space’, and ‘embodiment’…).
 
Gorgias said:
At first blush, I was going to agree that you’ve made an unsupportable assertion, but on second thought, there might be some real interesting discussion to be had here! Not that I agree that the original statement is “contrary to Catholic teaching” – I’ll be interested to see that citation of magisterial teaching – but the “outside time” assertion (while reasonable), might be irrelevant here.

After all, time is a measure of change of physical objects. There was no ‘time’, per se, prior to creation. Likewise, when a human dies, their physical body and soul separate, and their physical body decays. The body doesn’t experience purgation – only the soul does. Therefore, since there is no physical extension to the soul, there can’t be ‘time’ as we think of it. So, it would be more accurate to describe purgation as a ‘process’ than as something that happens in a ‘place’ for a given ‘duration’. (Any explanation of Purgatory as a place that happens over a period of time is, at best, an analogy that is made to help us (who are physical and time-bound) understand it.)

However, at the end of the world, when we have our glorified bodies, we will be outside of ‘time’; that is, we will have entered ‘eternity’, which is not so much an ‘endless sequence of periods of time’ as it is an ‘eternal now’. That being said, we nevertheless will have physical extension, as we’ll have our glorified bodies.

So, how can we speak of ‘purgation’ in this context? A few possibilities immediately come to mind: immediately prior to reception of their glorified bodies – and “in the blink of an eye”, as has been noted here! – perhaps those who are alive at the end of time will experience an unembodied state which will allow them to experience purgation in the way that (some of) the dead had experienced it. Alternately, perhaps they’ll experience purgation in their glorified bodies in a way similar to others, but we aren’t privy to how that works. Or, perhaps they’ll not experience it in a way similar to others, but will be purged nevertheless (again, though, we don’t know how that works).

In any case, none of these seem to contradict Catholic teaching (although they do force us to think a bit about ‘time’, ‘space’, and ‘embodiment’…).
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Yes, you got it pretty much what I was trying to say. “Time” is very much intertwined with “space”; it is a continuum. The soul occupies no space so “time” in terms of purgation is purely, in our current, wayfaring state, merely an expression. We don’t know for sure if there will be a linear “perception” of time in our souls’ disembodied states and we also know that time will end.

But still, I would demand that the one who said it was “…bad theology and contrary to Catholic teaching” to actually just cite what that teaching was. Surely one who makes such an assertion can easily back it up.
 
porthos11 said:
Yes, you got it pretty much what I was trying to say. “Time” is very much intertwined with “space”; it is a continuum. The soul occupies no space so “time” in terms of purgation is purely, in our current, wayfaring state, merely an expression. We don’t know for sure if there will be a linear “perception” of time in our souls’ disembodied states and we also know that time will end.

But still, I would demand that the one who said it was “…bad theology and contrary to Catholic teaching” to actually just cite what that teaching was. Surely one who makes such an assertion can easily back it up.
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Mea culpa for the Church teaching, but I’ll double down on the claim it’s bad theology…in fact it’s dreadful theology.
 
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