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Bahman
Guest
I think that title is clear enough.
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F
fhansen
Guest
Our forgiven status depends on our remaining in a state of justice. “Your sins are forgiven; go, and sin no more”I think that title is clear enough.
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sirach2v4
Guest
The Catholic Bible teaches us that God is our Creator and that we are in a “covenant” relationship with God. A Covenant is an agreement between God and mankind (as individuals) that we will share in His blessings, on the conditions that He grants those blessings.
We must be faithful to God and worship no so-called other gods, for example. Also, we are to love God and our neighbor, which has so many different expressions.
But, we are human and have many faults, and we fail so often to live up to the terms of that covenant. You can tell by looking at the newspaper and at the world around us, where there is so much hatred and violence against others, who are our brothers and sisters.
By God’s justice, He has told us the consequences for not living correctly. Justice means both God living up to His side of the covenant with rewards and punishments.
God forgives our sins on the condition mainly of our confession of those sins and our repentence, a turning away from those sins. We Christians believe in a judgment after our life is over, for the deeds of our lives, in eternity (beyond space and time as we know it).
We believe that Jesus Christ is God who took on flesh and eventually died by crucifixion to atone for our sins, to wash them away as is they had not existed. But, even that is a new covenant, a new agreement to believe in God and to live the moral life of love of God and love of neighbor.
We must be faithful to God and worship no so-called other gods, for example. Also, we are to love God and our neighbor, which has so many different expressions.
But, we are human and have many faults, and we fail so often to live up to the terms of that covenant. You can tell by looking at the newspaper and at the world around us, where there is so much hatred and violence against others, who are our brothers and sisters.
By God’s justice, He has told us the consequences for not living correctly. Justice means both God living up to His side of the covenant with rewards and punishments.
God forgives our sins on the condition mainly of our confession of those sins and our repentence, a turning away from those sins. We Christians believe in a judgment after our life is over, for the deeds of our lives, in eternity (beyond space and time as we know it).
We believe that Jesus Christ is God who took on flesh and eventually died by crucifixion to atone for our sins, to wash them away as is they had not existed. But, even that is a new covenant, a new agreement to believe in God and to live the moral life of love of God and love of neighbor.
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MT1926
Guest
Here is how I like to think about it.
I tend to compare it to my own life as a Father. If my child does something wrong and says sorry, I have no problem forgiving. However, shouldn’t the child be responsible for what they did? If my child comes to me over and over again always saying sorry and I hand out no punishment then I am failing as a Father. If there is never any punishment then the child will quickly learn that everything is fair game all they have to do is say sorry. How would that make them a better person? I see no contradiction, just because I believe God will forgive me, in no way means I am not responsible for my actions, which is his justice.
I tend to compare it to my own life as a Father. If my child does something wrong and says sorry, I have no problem forgiving. However, shouldn’t the child be responsible for what they did? If my child comes to me over and over again always saying sorry and I hand out no punishment then I am failing as a Father. If there is never any punishment then the child will quickly learn that everything is fair game all they have to do is say sorry. How would that make them a better person? I see no contradiction, just because I believe God will forgive me, in no way means I am not responsible for my actions, which is his justice.
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davidv
Guest
Please cite Church teaching that states all sins are forgiven.I think that title is clear enough.
Matthew 12:30-32New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come
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mikekle
Guest
A good way to understand this is to think of God as a entity buying up a lot of ‘old debt’ ( in this case, our sins), him dying the cross was him ‘buying’ that debt for every person that would ever live.
So he is the owner of this debt now, and we are obligated to him now.
So he is the owner of this debt now, and we are obligated to him now.
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Tim_D
Guest
Indeed. You would do well to actually study the concept of Justice before you come to such conclusions.
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fisherman_carl
Guest
Justice without mercy is not true justice. You are basically just asking what is the point of forgiveness. Imagine if you could never be forgiven a debt you could not pay. This is why God expects us to forgive others, to be merciful as our heavenly Father is merciful. Love is after all stronger than sin. Without the possibility of reconciliation and restoration we would have no hope. God doesn’t want to hold us in debt. He recognizes our need for forgiveness, but also for repentance. We need to come to him to receive it.
As far as punishment is concerned there still may be temporal punishment due to sins even if the eternal punishment is remitted. We may for instance still suffer the natural consequences of our sins.
As far as punishment is concerned there still may be temporal punishment due to sins even if the eternal punishment is remitted. We may for instance still suffer the natural consequences of our sins.
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Bahman
Guest
Anyway, our sins, no matter how many they are, are forgiven if we remain in the state of justice. This is against divine justice.Our forgiven status depends on our remaining in a state of justice. “Your sins are forgiven; go, and sin no more”
B
Bahman
Guest
So God forgive your sins, no matter how many they are, provided that you stay in state of repentence and confess?The Catholic Bible teaches us that God is our Creator and that we are in a “covenant” relationship with God. A Covenant is an agreement between God and mankind (as individuals) that we will share in His blessings, on the conditions that He grants those blessings.
We must be faithful to God and worship no so-called other gods, for example. Also, we are to love God and our neighbor, which has so many different expressions.
But, we are human and have many faults, and we fail so often to live up to the terms of that covenant. You can tell by looking at the newspaper and at the world around us, where there is so much hatred and violence against others, who are our brothers and sisters.
By God’s justice, He has told us the consequences for not living correctly. Justice means both God living up to His side of the covenant with rewards and punishments.
God forgives our sins on the condition mainly of our confession of those sins and our repentence, a turning away from those sins. We Christians believe in a judgment after our life is over, for the deeds of our lives, in eternity (beyond space and time as we know it).
We believe that Jesus Christ is God who took on flesh and eventually died by crucifixion to atone for our sins, to wash them away as is they had not existed. But, even that is a new covenant, a new agreement to believe in God and to live the moral life of love of God and love of neighbor.
B
Bahman
Guest
What is the false assumption? God is love and he forgive your sins no matter how many they are provided that you confess and stay in state of repetence.
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Bahman
Guest
All thing your children need to do is to confess and try to be in state of repetence. Isn’t it?Here is how I like to think about it.
I tend to compare it to my own life as a Father. If my child does something wrong and says sorry, I have no problem forgiving. However, shouldn’t the child be responsible for what they did? If my child comes to me over and over again always saying sorry and I hand out no punishment then I am failing as a Father. If there is never any punishment then the child will quickly learn that everything is fair game all they have to do is say sorry. How would that make them a better person? I see no contradiction, just because I believe God will forgive me, in no way means I am not responsible for my actions, which is his justice.
B
Bahman
Guest
All sins except those you mentioned can be forgiven.Please cite Church teaching that states all sins are forgiven.
B
Bahman
Guest
So our dept are paid and our sins are forgiven. You just need to confess every time you sin. What is the point of justice?A good way to understand this is to think of God as a entity buying up a lot of ‘old debt’ ( in this case, our sins), him dying the cross was him ‘buying’ that debt for every person that would ever live.
So he is the owner of this debt now, and we are obligated to him now.
B
Bahman
Guest
Justice with mercy is meaningless.Justice without mercy is not true justice.
No, I am asking what is the point of justice since you are assured that your sins will be forgiven provided you confess.You are basically just asking what is the point of forgiveness.
Our sins have limited effect so we can pay back.Imagine if you could never be forgiven a debt you could not pay.
Why we haven’t any hope? We should and can pay back for our sins.This is why God expects us to forgive others, to be merciful as our heavenly Father is merciful. Love is after all stronger than sin. Without the possibility of reconciliation and restoration we would have no hope.
So we have a problem with God’s justice.God doesn’t want to hold us in debt. He recognizes our need for forgiveness, but also for repentance. We need to come to him to receive it.
Eternal punishment is meaningless since our sins have limited effect.As far as punishment is concerned there still may be temporal punishment due to sins even if the eternal punishment is remitted. We may for instance still suffer the natural consequences of our sins.
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Vico
Guest
St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa Theologica Part I, Q21, A4:I think that title is clear enough.
In the justification of the ungodly, justice is seen, when God remits sins on account of love, though He Himself has mercifully infused that love. So we read of Magdalen: “Many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much” (Luke 7:47)
newadvent.org/summa/1021.htm
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fhansen
Guest
why? divine justice demands that we, creation, become just.Anyway, our sins, no matter how many they are, are forgiven if we remain in the state of justice. This is against divine justice.
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Bahman
Guest
Because two persons with different number of sins reaching the same status once their sins are forgiven.why? divine justice demands that we, creation, become just.
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fhansen
Guest
That’s mercy. From there both of them must pursue and live in righteousnessBecause two persons with different number of sins reaching the same status once their sins are forgiven.
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Bahman
Guest
There is a big problem with the mercy since it equates a person with one sin and a person with sinful life.That’s mercy. From there both of them must pursue and live in righteousness
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