What is your experience with RCIA?

[bellesjoy]

I am curious to know other cradle Catholic’s reaction to or experience with the RCIA process. I recently had a family member go through 1 year of RCIA and was confirmed this Spring. If it had not been for a separate class (not affiliated with the RCIA program) available in our area that covered the Cathechism of the Catholic Church and much independent reading, research and discussion, I don’t think this person would have known what they were being asked to vow a belief in at the time of Confirmation. I know there are several other people in the same RCIA class that are not really educated to what it is to be Catholic, but were confirmed. The RCIA instructor was a sister, who was very sweet, and all the people involved were very nice and welcoming, but nothing of any real content was ever offered. Any similar experiences out there?

 

[LaSalle]

I think Scott Hahn said it well … Roman Catholic Ignorance Amok.

The programme in my parish is a joke. It’s run by lay people with Priests and Nuns coming in once in a while.

It is open to people who have shown interest in wanting to become Catholic, but it is, really, just meant for people who have already decided to become Catholic, this course is thus a formality.

It is, actually, detrimental for people who want to come and learn and perhaps convert … the ‘lectures’ are downright boring, instead of going through a systematic lesson package it is based on the seasonal Church calendar. (i.e. the lessons correspond with the seasons, Lent, Advent etc. When certain Sacraments are present in the readings, the lessons reflect accordingly.) As a result, the Catechumens are bored to tears, with information which they received in a haphazard format.

Sure there are some good moments, the sharings help, but it’s not enough.

There were a few problems with the presenters and there was even a show down of sorts between the Sponsors and the core group. From a group that started out close to about 60, only about less than half were baptised. These would have been baptised even if the presenters were speaking in Greek anyway …

I will never force my wife to become Catholic. (I pray that she will) So when I saw that she was struggling through it and getting quite irritated with the mess ups, I reassured her that it was OK to drop out. We both agreed that we’d go to a different parish where we know the programme is better managed.

She did eventually drop out.

When I tried to address the sad state of affairs with the Padre in charge, he said that it was probably because my wife was not called. (Riiiiiight … blame the Holy Spirit)

This wasn’t the first time … I had previously taken an ex girlfriend thru the same programme, but we were luckier then, I had the resource and time to arrange for separate lessons conducted by the LaSallian Brothers, who helped her convert.

I wonder how many are ‘not called’ and how many were lost due to incompetence.

 

[DaveBj]

LaSalle:

I think Scott Hahn said it well … Roman Catholic Ignorance Amok.

snip

I wonder how many are ‘not called’ and how many were lost due to incompetence.

It is with trepidation that I am looking forward to the possibility of attending RCIA this fall. The booklet that I have been given looks quite comprehensive, but I have no idea what the instruction is going to be like.

I am hoping that, with all the reading I have been doing, I will be able to “CLEP out” of RCIA.

DaveBj

 

[bellesjoy]

to DaveBj
I don’t want to make you feel hesitant. As I stated, the people in our group who took it upon themselves to supplement the RCIA program with things other than what they offered, did well with the combination. There is good in the program in that it provides fellowship and inspiration, at least in our parish. For a cradle Catholic watching the process, it just seemed not to provide some very basic doctrine. Don’t be aftraid to dig for answers. However, sometimes the problem with candidates, is that they don’t know what they are missing and therefore don’t know what to ask.

 

[Jackster58]

I spent nearly 18 months in our RCIA program before entering the Church last Easter. While on the whole, I loved the program, It did leave me wanting for more. When new folks coming into the church, they are hungry, but not all for the same thing. Some need to know about God and salvation, while others want to learn about the Sacrements, still others want to know about the Church. It is nearly impossible to cover the entire Catholic faith in 8 or 9 months, with only a couple of hours per week. We always had a Priest or Deacon with us at every class and all questions were answered. However, on a personal level, I never felt like I was personally evangelized. They claimed that that was not the scope of RCIA, yet I contend that it should have been. So, there is a broad range of topics that they have to cover and the bottom line is they can’t do them all. As for coming out or RCIA ignorant, not on your life. Most of us are better apologists than the average bench warmer in the pews. Newbys have an active interest in all things Catholic. My Cradle Catholic family (inlaws), only attend Sunday Mass because it is a habit. Most of them would leave if something better came along and they don’t understand why I got so fired up about the whole thing. But when they have questions, they now ask me.

Jack

 

[SeanG]

I was the administrator of religious education in a parish for three and a half years with overseeing and, in large part, teaching RCIA being one of my main responsibilities.

For resources, I gave each participant a series of four page brochures on various topics, published by Liguori, a copy of the CCC, the Bible, and a sheet that cross-referenced each of the brochures with the CCC. I also reproduced outlines of my presentations and would copy other public-domain online resources as well.

So, as you can see, I gave the participants all they needed to know the faith.

All except the motivation to read it, ask questions, start discussions, etc.

I know of several people who wanted to join the Church but who just weren’t that interested in internalizing and deeply investigating the Church’s teachings and practices.

They seemed to accept what the Church taught. But they probably weren’t in a good position soon after being received into the full communion of the Church to answer some questions put to them by others who know little about the faith.

In any case, even with the best teachers, materials, and the most motivated participants, RCIA can only be a beginning to know the faith.

We want to give our prospective Catholics a good, authoritative start in knowing and living the faith. But it is just that–a start.

 

[SeanG]

DaveBj:

I am hoping that, with all the reading I have been doing, I will be able to “CLEP out” of RCIA.

DaveBj

Dave,

Are you already baptized? If so, then RCIA as a whole is really not for you anyway. It is intended for those who are not Christian (i.e., not baptized). This intention is there because RCIA is modeled after the way that the patristic Church brought new members into it.

I would suspect that a large majority of parishes do a ‘combined rite’ where the formation and the rites for the unbaptized and baptized are merged.

There are lots of reasons that this has happened: lack of personnel resources in parishes to have parallel programs, but also lack of understanding of the fundamental difference between the baptized and unbaptized and a lack of respect of the power of baptism.

Many are starting to recognize the need to separate the formation and rites of the baptized and unbaptized.

The challenge is that both of these groups come with people of lots of different backgrounds and knowledge. You can have a man who is not baptized but who has studied the faith in depth and been coming to Mass for months or years. On the other hand, you can have a woman who was baptized but has little or no knowledge of the faith and never darkened the door of the church. Then there is the large spectrum in between.

Obviously, this requires tailoring of formation and close personal attention. A lot of work? You bet. But the Lord never said that this life of faith would be easy.

 

[Abram420]

I would say that experiences vary widely by parish. I went through the RCIA program at our small parish and came into the Church 2 years ago. Since then, I have become part of the RCIA team. My experience was wonderful. I was very hesitant going in, but loved every minute of it. I think that our parish is lucky in that we are led in the RCIA by one of our Priests. He does a wonderful job in the teaching and in the faith formation. In our Diocese, he is one of, if not the only priest who is responsible for the majority of the RCIA teaching.

 

[Malachi4U]

I just went through the RCIA process at my parish and I have pros and cons too. The program is for everyone and anyone who has not already been taught what it is to be RC should attend the class. Like all programs it will vary in quality from parish to parish.
Pros:
Run by ‘volunteers’!

Teaches about key aspects/teachings of the RCC.

Gets people involved in parish.

Meet fellow RC’s.

Gives you direction on were to go for more learning.

Cons:

Run by ‘volunteers’!

Time consuming and loooong!

Sometimes very boring based on instructor.

No make up sessions or shorter duration courses.

Not enough volunteers to help!

In the RCC we have ‘pew warmer’s’, we have those who claim to be Catholic but do not attend Mass - ever, we have those that are ‘Holiday Catholics’ and fill the Church on Easter and Christmas, and we have RC’s that participate in and volunteer to help the Church in Her mission to help us on our journey.

Unless ‘YOU’ volunteer at your parish to help, things will not get better. If ‘YOU’ don’t like something then go to the parish office and do something most RC’s don’t do (My experience only) and that is to volunteer of your time and life to help others on their journey.

I urge all who are new to the Faith to go through the RCIA program good or bad. It will help you to learn our Faith. If you don’t like the program then “VOLUNTEER” to help it get better!

I came from protestant churches that had excellent youth groups, Sunday schools, Bible studies, etc… and sometimes with fewer the 50 total members. The last Baptist church I attended had more kids in the AWANA club then it had members in the church! RC kids went to the AWANA club and learned Baptist theology because there were NO RC youth clubs anywhere around! (In Utah Christians are closer between faiths and more tolerant and supportive due to the rarity of Christians) The only problem my old protestant churches had was finding enough projects too keep all the volunteers busy! They had to take turns because everyone just about volunteered and they don’t even claim to believe in Jas 2:24-26 or deeds are necessary at all!

God bless all our volunteers in RCIA. Some are good some are not as good but all are living their Faith by helping others. God bless them all! Praise God for their effort!

Volunteer!!!
Malachi4U

 

[dream_wanderer]

I had a great program. One teacher was a cradle Catholic, the other a convert. One was a gently and loving teacher…the other a crusty jokester. But they always had the Catechism and the Bible on the table in front of them and they gave us a complete and thorough introduction to Catholicism. They wrote out their own syllabus and they did so well another parish has requested that they be allowed to use their material!

It was great…I was sorry when it was over.

dream wanderer

 

[asor]

bellesjoy:

I am curious to know other cradle Catholic’s reaction to or experience with the RCIA process. I recently had a family member go through 1 year of RCIA and was confirmed this Spring. If it had not been for a separate class (not affiliated with the RCIA program) available in our area that covered the Cathechism of the Catholic Church and much independent reading, research and discussion, I don’t think this person would have known what they were being asked to vow a belief in at the time of Confirmation. I know there are several other people in the same RCIA class that are not really educated to what it is to be Catholic, but were confirmed. The RCIA instructor was a sister, who was very sweet, and all the people involved were very nice and welcoming, but nothing of any real content was ever offered. Any similar experiences out there?

I was confirmed 4 years ago, having attended RCIA. I was quite pleased with the class. I agree with you that some may go ‘uneducated’ on what it is to be Catholic, but RCIA can only help if the teacher knows your concerns. My teacher was quite knowledgeable, but I also know that if she could not answer a question she certainly made it a point to inquire and fulfill our curiousity. I guess it’s up to us to want to understand enough to ask. RCIA is a valuable path to a better understanding and moving us towards God’s teachings, but we can’t leave it all up to the teacher. By the way, I am quite pleased that I waited until RCIA age to be Confirmed…I learned so much more. Aside from the class, I’m learning more and more by connecting through prayer with God. As far as I’m concerned, there’s no better teacher and He knows who he uses or what methods he places before me to teach me…even an RCIA teacher back then.
I hope this helps. This is my personal thought on your concern.

 

[DaveBj]

SeanG:

Dave,

Are you already baptized? If so, then RCIA as a whole is really not for you anyway. It is intended for those who are not Christian (i.e., not baptized). This intention is there because RCIA is modeled after the way that the patristic Church brought new members into it.

Yeah, that’s what I meant by hoping to CLEP out of it. I am a validly (in Rome’s eyes) baptized Christian, for 28 years a serious (if misguidedly Protestant) fundy Christian (I am one, so I can use the nickname ), and I’ve been immersed in studying things Catholic for about eight months now.

I’m in the process of making an appointment with the pastor, and I will give him a list of the books that I’ve read and see what he thinks. Watch this space. Maybe Karl can put in a good word for me :bounce:

DaveBj

 

[Cliff_Cooper]

I was brought in to the Church as a baptized Christian in 1995, but through the RCIA program that combined baptized, unbaptized and other adult catholics wanting to complete their sacraments. I have been involved with the program ever since then because I felt their was so much more to the faith than could be taught in a short time frame. Some adult Catholics who are trying to make their confirmation are very ill informed about their own faith (many doing just to get married in the Church). Many baptised Christians are just now finding the Church after being unchurched for years and are hungry to know what the Catholic faith is about. Ditto with the unbaptised. Some are biblically informed , most are not. I, like one of the respondents above, was well-read (I read the CCC from cover to cover) and also felt I could have CLEP’d out! That was a wrong assumption. THe RCIA experience was full of information that picqued my interest and furthered my studies about the faith. Was (is) the program perfect? No. That’s why I came back year after year . To help answer the questions of the adults who are seeking answers. Like priests. there aren’t enough GOOD catechists. I think Scott Hahn is somewhat correct, but it’s us that have to change it. A good apologist as a catechist is a great benefit to those who are seeking why they are drawn to our wonderful faith.

Keep involved!

 

[patricia]

SeanG:

Dave,

Are you already baptized? If so, then RCIA as a whole is really not for you anyway. It is intended for those who are not Christian (i.e., not baptized). This intention is there because RCIA is modeled after the way that the patristic Church brought new members into it.

I would suspect that a large majority of parishes do a ‘combined rite’ where the formation and the rites for the unbaptized and baptized are merged.

There are lots of reasons that this has happened: lack of personnel resources in parishes to have parallel programs, but also lack of understanding of the fundamental difference between the baptized and unbaptized and a lack of respect of the power of baptism.

Many are starting to recognize the need to separate the formation and rites of the baptized and unbaptized.

The challenge is that both of these groups come with people of lots of different backgrounds and knowledge. You can have a man who is not baptized but who has studied the faith in depth and been coming to Mass for months or years. On the other hand, you can have a woman who was baptized but has little or no knowledge of the faith and never darkened the door of the church. Then there is the large spectrum in between.

Obviously, this requires tailoring of formation and close personal attention. A lot of work? You bet. But the Lord never said that this life of faith would be easy.

I was baptized in the Anglican Church as an infant and was confirmed at 13 yrs of age. I am now 47. I was faithful to God as a Protestant but now am being led into the Catholic Church. I have been reading good Catholic apologetic books for over 6 months and attending Mass since before Easter this year.

When I spoke to the priest he said I still have to go through the RCIA program and will not be able to come into full communion until Easter 2005. It is very hard for me to wait as I already believe and accept Catholic doctrine fully. As I can only observe while others receive Christ in the Eucharist, my tears often flow. Still I am told I must wait. I know of at least 2 parishioners who receive the Eucharist every Sunday and yet tell me they don’t even believe in all the Catholic Church teaches … in fact, they tell me I can decide for myself what I want to believe or not believe. This confuses me that they can receive the Eucharist without fully believing and yet I do believe but cannot receive.

Can anyone help me to understand this? And what if something were to ever happen that I died before Easter 2005? I know I can learn patience through all this but it is very hard to wait so long.

Patricia

 

[yinekka]

A friend of mine was asked to be a sponsor and he said that the teacher wasn’t teaching authentic Catholic Doctrine.

I can’t understand 1. Why the bishops allowed this situation to develop in the first place.

                        2.  Why people who are employed or volunteer to teach RCIA don't have to sign an agreement that they will teach the authentic Faith.

                         3.  There should be a set syllabus.

                          4.  Maybe the above will result in no RCIA but why have dissidents producing dissidents to undermine Church teachings and the Hierarchy?

                           5.  If I have figured this out why haven't the bishops???????????? :confused:  :banghead:

 

[Texas_Ex]

Contrary to the negative experience of some on this thread, I had a great RCIA experience. So much so that I initially felt a void after RCIA was over and I was left “on my own.”

Like every education-related endeavor in life, RCIA depends upon (a) the amount of work the student puts into it, and (b) the quality and commitment of those administering the program.

I had several parishes close to me from which to choose, and I specifically chose my current parish b/c of the strong RCIA program. Sure, there were some catechumens/candidates who were just there because they were marrying a Catholic, but by and large, we each received as much information (emphasis on the “-formation”!) as we could individually process. I feel blessed to have found such a rewarding atmosphere, both spiritually, amicably, and intellectually.

Bellesjoy, if you have the ability, don’t be afraid to “shop around” a bit. To turn around a biblical phrase, you can’t “find” unless you “seek” …

 

[Jackster58]

Can anyone help me to understand this? And what if something were to ever happen that I died before Easter 2005? I know I can learn patience through all this but it is very hard to wait so long.

PatriciaI’ll take a stab at this Patricia. I am a new Catholic and was received into the Church this year. I, like many did not want to waste my time going through the RCIA process. i had already decided the RCC was where I needed to be and having a required meeting to attend every Thursday night was seemingly, a waste of my time. However, I reluctantly entered the program only to find that I began too late to be confirmed in 2003, so I had to go through about 18 months of the program. Now, what did I get out of that???

First, I got a pretty good dose of what it means to be a Catholic intellectually. We went into all the important subjects and some of them I got twice.

I learned to be patient and persevere for what I wanted. After all, God called me to be there and I have a lifetime to get this all right, so I just did what he wanted.

I made some great friends. In fact, our Church of about 1000 families only has a handful of steady volunteers and I know and am pretty good friends with all of them. I know our priests intimately, sharing meals with them, meeting their families and knowing them as regular people. We had a Deacon ordained this year and nearly the whole group traveled for 1000 miles to see it all happen.

I got it in my heart. Many do not get a chance to feel what it is like to be Catholic, but for me, it took being there and going through the process. The time with others really helped.

To answer your question about what if I died. You are already baptized and are part of Gods family, so don’t sweat it. Talk to your priest and see if you can receive reconciliation to shed any mortal sins that you maybe carrying around. God’s grace is already there for you. Also, once you enter into the process as a catechumen or a candidate, you are part of the Church and you would receive a Catholic funeral should something happen. Catechumens (those not baptized) are considered to be baptized by desire and should the die, they would (hopefully) go to heaven.

Being Catholic isn’t joining a Club and it isn’t the religion of the month club, It takes commitment. However, that makes all that you receive after becoming RCC worthwhile and you will be a RC for the rest of your life. I could have gone down to Cornerstone Baptist Church and got baptized on any Sunday of the month, but I chose to stick it out and I am glad I did. Perhaps next year, I will be a companion to an RCIA candidate. The biggest problem with the program is that when it is over, you have to find something else to do to keep your faith alive and your interest at its peak. Go in with a good attitude and it will pay huge dividends to your life.

Your’s in Christ
Jack

 

[theMutant]

DaveBj:

It is with trepidation that I am looking forward to the possibility of attending RCIA this fall. The booklet that I have been given looks quite comprehensive, but I have no idea what the instruction is going to be like.

I had a particularly bad experience as a sponsor for a catechumen in a particularly deplorable RCIA program. My first recommendation to you is to realize that, in some parishes, there are first class dissenters running the RCIA program. This might not be the case where you are going to attend, but this situation does exist so be prepared. If you find yourself in that situation, you might want to look for another program that you can get into.

The next thing I would recommend is that you get yourself some really good resources to study. Many RCIA programs give you a Bible when you go through the acceptace ceremony so the first additional resource you should get is the Catechism.

Beyond that, I personally recommend books like Karl Adam’s “The Spirit of Catholicism” and “The Catholic Catechism” by Fr. John Hardon S.J. and anything by Scott Hahn. Another good resource is “Catholics and the New Age” by Fr. Mitch Packwa. I recommend this last one in the event that the program you enter is run by “Catholics” who encorporate New Age philosophy in their RCIA programs. This was the case in the program in which I participated (the pastor held classes on the Ennegram!)

These kinds of resources will enhance your experience if the RCIA program is good and help protect you from error if it is not.

 

[theMutant]

patricia:

When I spoke to the priest he said I still have to go through the RCIA program and will not be able to come into full communion until Easter 2005. It is very hard for me to wait as I already believe and accept Catholic doctrine fully. As I can only observe while others receive Christ in the Eucharist, my tears often flow. Still I am told I must wait. I know of at least 2 parishioners who receive the Eucharist every Sunday and yet tell me they don’t even believe in all the Catholic Church teaches … in fact, they tell me I can decide for myself what I want to believe or not believe. This confuses me that they can receive the Eucharist without fully believing and yet I do believe but cannot receive.

Can anyone help me to understand this? And what if something were to ever happen that I died before Easter 2005?

Patricia,

What a wonderful testament of faith your message is!!! I am assuming that you will be entering the RCIA program as a Candidate (one who is already baptized). The reason that you have to wait until 2005 is that this lengthy process is the one established by the authority of the Church and the priest cannot offer an alterative program for you without authorization from his bishop. While I don’t agree with everything about the revised RCIA program, you must realize its dual purpose. First, it is your chance to formally learn about the faith so that you can make an educated decision about entering the Church. From your message, it sounds like you have done enough studying to make that decision, but this leads us to the other purpose; so the Church can make an educated decision about whether you are ready to enter into full communion. This program is designed to take you through all the major aspects of the faith that you must be willing to profess your faith in the Catholic Church.

You need to pray hard for the two parishoners you mentioned for they are committing a huge sin by receiving Communion when they do not believe all of Catholic doctrine. However, assume that they have been poorly catechised about their faith and do not know that what they are doing is a sin unless they have explicitly told you otherwise. If this is the case, pray even harder for them.

In regard to your own tears while you wait to receive the Eucharist, they are part of the treasure that you are storing up in Heaven. Your obedience to the Church in this matter even before you have been fully received is a credit to you; especially since you long to receive. In many Missals is a prayer of Spiritual Communion. Offer this prayer every time you are present when others are receiving Communion as well as any other time the Spirit moves you. Your joy will be even greater on that day when you can recieve our Lord.

You need not worry if you die before the completion of your initiation to the Church. It is a teaching of the Church that God gives full credit to your DESIRE. If you cannot go to Confession and receive the Eucharist because you died before you were allowed to, then the Church entrusts you to God’s mercy; for your inability to receive was out of loving obedience to Him and His Church. This is related to the teaching about the baptism of desire. In case you are not familiar with it, I will try to briefly explain.

If you, through no falt of your own, fail to join in full communion with the Church, then God does not hold that failure against you. If the state of your soul is such that you desire the truth and, had you known the truth, you would have responded affirmatively to it and joined the Church, then the Church wills that you receive the graces that you would have received from the Sacraments and entrusts you to the Devine Mercy of our Lord and Savior. Remember that sin is an act of will against God. Failure to go to Confession and receive Communion, or even to receive Baptism, because you are prohibited by the Church from doing so will not count in any way against you. On the contrary, it will count in your favor because your will is one that loves God and obeys.

I hope that this and the other messages help.

 

[SeanG]

Patricia,

Others have already commented ably on your situation. But let me simply assure you of my prayers.

Dave,

I pass on the same thought to you. I will keep you in my prayers. When you meet with the pastor, don’t focus on your concerns about the state of the RCIA program in the parish. Don’t create a situation where he might feel (whether it is justified or not) that he or his judgment is being attacked.

Focus instead on the fact that you are already baptized and have been brought by God to a love of the Church and so seek to join in its full communion.