When you do this, remember me

  • Thread starter Thread starter buffalo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

buffalo

Guest
“When you do this, remember me” - a new version of the Consecration at Mass yesterday. 😦
 
buffalo said:
“When you do this, remember me” - a new version of the Consecration at Mass yesterday. 😦
Click to expand...

How sad. Possibly not valid - certainly not licit.

I went to a funeral the other day. Priest changed the words of the canon - not consecration - thank God. No embolism and used the usual Protestant version of the Our Father. Told everyone to sit for the Canon. I guess we should be embarrassed that Catholics kneel during the consecration!! He fumbled with the thurible and incensed only half the altar - guess he doesn’t do incense much. Disjointed and rambling homily. So sad.
 
buffalo said:
“When you do this, remember me” - a new version of the Consecration at Mass yesterday. 😦
Click to expand...

These liturgical abuses make me so mad. They seem to be getting worse. Almost makes me want to start some kind of grass roots movement! I just don’t get it - why can’t they celebrate the Mass the way it is supposed to be? Why are some of these priests so egotistical as to find it necessary to change the words of the Consecration or any part of the Mass for that matter? Really getting my Italian temper in high gear! :mad:

Shonmarie
 
40.png
Shonmarie:
These liturgical abuses make me so mad. They seem to be getting worse. Almost makes me want to start some kind of grass roots movement! I just don’t get it - why can’t they celebrate the Mass the way it is supposed to be? Why are some of these priests so egotistical as to find it necessary to change the words of the Consecration or any part of the Mass for that matter? Really getting my Italian temper in high gear! :mad:

Shonmarie
Click to expand...
The priest does not use the Sacramentary. He brings in his own binder.
 
“When you do this, remember me” - a new version of the Consecration at Mass yesterday/QUOTE]

A monsignor at our parish routinely says those words at consecration.

He also has said that Jesus did not found the Catholic Church, a bunch of Jewish men that excluded others founded it (said this during his homily). Also openly has spoken against the Church for not ordaining women…makes me so MAD.

Needless to say I no longer go to that service but he needs to be stopped.

God Bless
Javier
Click to expand...
 
All this valid/licit stuff is dependent on the assumption that translations into the vernacular can have “official” versions and that the vote of a conference of bishops can determine whether a priest has confected the sacrament or not. In English, there is no semantic difference between “whenever you do this, do it in remembrance of me” and “when you do this, remember me.” It is perfectly ridiculous to say that anything other than “this is my body” and “this is my blood” (which can also be said in a variant way in Latin by eliminating “enim” from the one and “calix” from the other) is necessary to validate the sacrament or makes the ceremony licit. Is it a good idea to introduced these variations? Of course not, and I don’t understand the motivation. But the idea that the sacrament is dependent on a specific English wording worked out by a bunch of bishops only forty years ago is perfectly ridiculous.

In case anybody does not know, the expression “hocus pocus” comes from “hoc est corpus,” and was a an expression of contempt that the consecration is a matter of magic words like “open sesame” and not words with a valid meaning in some language at least to change the matter into the body and blood of Jesus.
 
sigh

Stuff like this makes me burn inside with desire to become a Priest.

I know I would be great at it, all my friends tell me so too. But still, I can see myself doing it, but I don’t yet think it is for the right reasons.

And I really like girls. 😛 We’ll see, i’m only 21, still have quite a few years to decide. Never did I, in my entire life, think that I would be discerning my vocation. Haha.

Our Monsignor is awesome. He writes great homilys. But he changes some wording which irritates me. And when he elevates the host it is so quick I can’t even blink before he is lowering it again. There is a bunch more, but I am not gonna sit here and bash my priest. Who knows? The best we can do is pray.

Adam
 
40.png
Unfinished:
The best we can do is pray.

Adam
Click to expand...
So true, Adam.

Thanks to all you who care so much about the liturgy. Makes me feel less alone. We lack an image of the crucified Christ in our church, we have had liturgical dancers during Mass, including half-naked male drummers with feathered head dresses. I’ve become hypersensitive to all this, for varied reasons. We’ve had priests in our parish regularly leave out the “men” in the creed, in “for us men and for our salvation,” and I’ve even heard our bishop ask us to pray to God, our “loving Father,” where the words are supposed to be, our “Almighty Father.” This drives me nuts.

Recently, I thought our priest was changing the words of consecration, but when I looked in my missal, I realized that I was wrong about some of it. Then I approached the same priest this morning after Mass. He had said something like, "and then He said, ‘Do this in memory of me.’ " I was upset, thinking that he had added the “and then he said” part. But the priest showed me the words in the lectionary, or whatever it’s called, for the “Children’s Mass.” Then he said to me, “Don’t make a hell for yourself; then even God can’t save you. Be at peace.”

Then he asserted that “We don’t change the words of the missal,” but he does add a prayer for our parish priest where no other priest has done so before (after the prayer for Pope Benedict XVI and Bishop XYZ).

I am so confused. He’s right that I am getting myself all worked up. I am guilty of that, but it doesn’t help me to be at peace for him to say “even God can’t save” me.

I mistakenly believed that the consecration might not have been valid this morning (until the priest showed me the lectionary), so I didn’t receive Holy Communion, and instead knelt and cried.

I’m trying to discern between leaving the parish and staying to pray. I need lots of help from God either way.
 
I’ve goofed again. I should say, regarding the invitation to prayer in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and the words, “almighty Father,” that I don’t know that it’s not OK to say, “loving Father.” Perhaps that is no liturgical abuse.
At least it’s very commonly heard around my diocese.
 
40.png
Cathy:
Thanks to all you who care so much about the liturgy. Makes me feel less alone. We lack an image of the crucified Christ in our church, we have had liturgical dancers during Mass, including half-naked male drummers with feathered head dresses. I’ve become hypersensitive to all this, for varied reasons.
Click to expand...
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I would find a new parish, for those reasons alone.

This stuff drives me batty. How could a priest permit this kind of stuff? I guess my parish isn’t too bad by comparison. We did just move the blessed sacrament back behind the altar, which I liked a lot.

“liturgical dancers” scare me. If I were ever a priest, and someone started dancing, I would just stop and stare at them until they sat down.

I’ll tell you guys what. I will go to seminary if all of you promise to move to my parish. Orthodox Catholics only please. 😃

Adam
 
40.png
jbuck919:
All this valid/licit stuff is dependent on the assumption that translations into the vernacular can have “official” versions and that the vote of a conference of bishops can determine whether a priest has confected the sacrament or not. In English, there is no semantic difference between “whenever you do this, do it in remembrance of me” and “when you do this, remember me.” It is perfectly ridiculous to say that anything other than “this is my body” and “this is my blood” (which can also be said in a variant way in Latin by eliminating “enim” from the one and “calix” from the other) is necessary to validate the sacrament or makes the ceremony licit. Is it a good idea to introduced these variations? Of course not, and I don’t understand the motivation. But the idea that the sacrament is dependent on a specific English wording worked out by a bunch of bishops only forty years ago is perfectly ridiculous.

In case anybody does not know, the expression “hocus pocus” comes from “hoc est corpus,” and was a an expression of contempt that the consecration is a matter of magic words like “open sesame” and not words with a valid meaning in some language at least to change the matter into the body and blood of Jesus.
Click to expand...
Illicit my friend means not allowed and no one is allowed to change the words of the canon on his own. The wording was clearly illicit. As to validity, you are possibly right - it may have been valid, but that is not clear. Those words can clearly mean the same or different things. Hence the qualifier on validity. No one is suggesting magic words here - just approved - licit - words and questions as to meaning. Of course if he had used the approved words we wouldn’t have the issue, now would we.
 
Unfinished said:
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I would find a new parish, for those reasons alone.

This stuff drives me batty. How could a priest permit this kind of stuff? I guess my parish isn’t too bad by comparison. We did just move the blessed sacrament back behind the altar, which I liked a lot.

“liturgical dancers” scare me. If I were ever a priest, and someone started dancing, I would just stop and stare at them until they sat down.

I’ll tell you guys what. I will go to seminary if all of you promise to move to my parish. Orthodox Catholics only please.

Adam
Click to expand...

Ohhhhhh… The only time I saw dancing at my parish was a novitiate (that later decided that she wasn’t called to the religious life) with an incense thing…it was at least modestly and tastefully done even if I thought it wasn’t quite right! I feel so old…as I was reading what you all wrote I was thinking about when they changed the “Pray brethern that our …” to “Pray friends…” or “Pray brothers and sisters…” how it just didn’t sound right to me, now it seems perfectly normal. Funny how time changes things! Adam, I will be praying for you. I hope that you follow whatever God’s path for you is! Let us know your plans…heck, maybe you can take my 19 yo son with you! (We’ll wait a few yrs for the 16 yo 🙂 ) I personally think it is great that many of our youth are as orthodox and committed as they are. I hear folks complain about kids and I think…hmmm I just don’t see it. Most of the time, what I see is a bigger divide between the faithful and the not so faithful. Anyway, back on topic…if I see something that I question, I go to our pastor and ask about it. I know the pastor is the problem where some of you are, but, I think if you bring things to his attention maybe he will be more careful when saying mass. Thank God our diocese is very orthodox so these things don’t happen often, and if they do, people like me aren’t shy and will ask about it. The few times I recall asking him about things was when there was an event that was out of the ordinary, like when we had an outdoor mass at the National Balloon Festival when it was in our town, or when the bishop came to our local college to say mass and it was so jam packed…nobody knew what to do with all the extra folks…or when the media stormed our local Catholic HS for the dedication mass (new school) just to ask the bishop and kids about the sex abuse thing…ohhhh was I hot, but in retrospect the bishop was right to allow them in to mass and take pictures. What I didn’t like was that the media disrupted mass asking HS kids what they thought about priests abusing kids when mass wasn’t quite done! Anyway, enough of my rants…I am just an old lady I guess!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top