Who Founded the Church?

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As a RCIA candidate hoping to come into full communion with the Catholic Church this Easter I was recently sharing my testimony with some other candidates when I was abruptly interrupted and corrected by our catechist.

I had been talking about how I had come to realized that the Catholic Church was the church Christ founded…

Our catechist quite emphatically stated that Christ did not found the church, that we had to remember that Jesus was a Jew.

I understand about how most new covenant believers are the “wild branches” that are being grafted into the True Vine which is Christ, and that the church existed long before the incarnation (Act 7:38), even as Christ Himself is the I AM and being eternal, was before Abraham, even as He testified of Himself.

I searched through scripture, the catechism, and the US Catholic Bishops site for the phrase, “church Christ founded”, and was only able to find in the catechism, “…knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ…” (#846)

I can’t begin to count the number of times I have heard and read, the phrase, “church Christ founded”, or variations thereof. Can anyone tell me why someone who has had extensive theological training would object to this statement? Is this a matter of a significant distiction of persons in the Godhead concerning the economy of salvation? We know Christ is coeternal, coequal, completely one with the Father, and that through Him all things were made. Is this just a matter of quibbling over semantics, or is it important here to understand the role of the Father and of the Son in bringing forth into existence His church?

Any comments?
 
IMHO, this is only an important point for those who would try to deny it. Christ said, “I will build my church.” He also describes himself as the stone that the builders rejected but became the corner stone. Both of these statments imply a future (from the perspective of Jesus’ time) building of the church, so ancient Judiaism, from which Christianity came, cannot be considered the foundation. Yes, Jesus was a Jew, but he didn’t say “I will modify my church” or “I will renovate my church.” And he also didn’t describe Judaism as the foundation. Therefore, he is the foundation as well as the master builder, which makes him the founder (in the fullest sense) of the church.

To deny that he founded the Catholic Church requires one to deny the inerrancy of the Bible, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and the authority of the magesterium, on top of recorded history. If that’s the case, I wouldn’t think they would be cut out for being a catechist.
 
There are probably more references in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) to Christ being the founder of the Catholic Church but here is one:

The Church is one because of her founder: for “the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross,… restoring the unity of all in one people and one body.” (CCC 813)
 
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JohnGunther:
Any comments?
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Unfortunately, it seems you’ve been afflicted with a catechist who has bought into a lot of PC faddish buzzwords. You could complain to the pastor, but don’t count on him not sticking up for his catechist.

You may have to grin and bear it for now, like many of us have done. Just bide your time, pay your dues by getting involved in ministry, and sooner or later you’ll be the one teaching RCIA and have a chance to help undo some of the damage done by a generation of liberal catechesis.
 
:ehh: Maybe your chatechist took “founder” to mean “first member”, in which case one could argue that Jesus was Jewish, not Catholic. And there was no Eucharistic Sacrifice until Jesus had shared in the last supper and then died on the cross. Thus, He couldn’t have held a Catholic Mass until there was a reason to have the Catholic Mass.

On the other hand, Jesus definitely started the Catholic church.

So maybe it’s all just a mixup of “founding member” vs “founding Father”.

❤️
 
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JohnGunther:
Our catechist quite emphatically stated that Christ did not found the church, that we had to remember that Jesus was a Jew.

Is this just a matter of quibbling over semantics, or is it important here to understand the role of the Father and of the Son in bringing forth into existence His church?

Any comments?
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It is of utmost importance. If Jesus did not found the church, then catholics have no more claim on being the true church than the protestant church that was founded last year has.

But Jesus did found a church. He said so in Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Your catechist is sorely mistaken if he thinks that Jesus didn’t found a church.
 
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JohnGunther:
Can anyone tell me why someone who has had extensive theological training would object to this statement?
Any comments?
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Are you certain this person actually has theological training? My parish uses volunteers and some of them are not very well educated. I went to RCIA to try to refresh my knowledge and ended up having to try to correct the errors they were teahcing.

sigh…
 
Todd Easton:
There are probably more references in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) to Christ being the founder of the Catholic Church but here is one:

The Church is one because of her founder: for “the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross,… restoring the unity of all in one people and one body.” (CCC 813)
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Here are a few more places in the Catechism where Christ is mentioned as the founder of the Catholic Church:
Christ was the “founder” of the Catholic Church: 768, 786, 849.
The Catholic Church was “founded by” Christ: 778.
Christ “established” the Catholic Church: 771.
 
Thanks to all who have responded. Thanks for confirming as authoritative what I was not immediately able to confirm for myself.

*Where a lone man may be
overcome, two together can
resist. A three-ply cord is
not easily broken

Ecclesiastes 4:12*
 
** Mt 16:18-19 - upon this rock I will build my Church **

** Mt 28:18-20 - go baptize and teach all nations **
** Mk 16:15-16 - go to whole world and proclaim gospel **
** Lk 10:16 - whoever hears you, hears me; rejects you, rejects me. **

** 1Tim 3:15 - Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. **

** Col 1:18 - He is the head of the body, the church. **

** 1 Cor 6:15 - Don’t you know your bodies are members of Christ? **

** Jn 10:16 - there will be one fold and one shepherd. **

** Mt 16:18-19 - upon this rock I will build my Church (singular)**

** Jn 15;16 - Jesus chose special men to be his Apostles
Jn 20:21 - Jesus gave the Apostles his own mission
Lk 22:29-3 - Jesus gave them a kingdom
Mt 16:18 - Jesus built Church on Peter, the rock
Jn 10:16 - one shepherd to shepherd Christ’s sheep
Lk 22:32, Jn 21:17 - Peter appointed to be chief shepherd
Eph 4;11 - church leaders are hierarchical
1Tim 3:1, 8; 5:17 - identifies roles of bishops, priests, deacons
Tit 1:5 - commission for bishops to ordain priests **

** Mt 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles
Jn 20:23 - power to forgive sin
1Cor 11:23-24 - power to offer sacrifice (Eucharist)
Lk 10:16 - power to speak with Christ’s voice
Mt 18:18 - power to legislate
Mt 18:17 - power to discipline**
 
JG, you first need to understand that Christ planned to form only one church, a universal church. Catholic is the Greek word for universal. Sounds to me that HE founded the Catholic Church, I don’t know how anyone can deny that.
 
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onmywayagain:
JG, you first need to understand that Christ planned to form only one church, a universal church. Catholic is the Greek word for universal. Sounds to me that HE founded the Catholic Church, I don’t know how anyone can deny that.
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He, Himself tells us He founded the Church:
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
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(Matthew 16, 18)
 
Yaaah…I don’t think the catechist was trying to deny that the Catholic Church was the one true church that is built up upon the chief cornerstone which is Christ, then Peter, Christ’s first vicar on earth, then the other apostles. I think it was about when the church, which was prepared by God, before the foundations of the world, in Christ, actually began on earth. Also I think what was being pointed out is that there has to be a distinction theologically in the roles of the Father and the Son (Holy Spirit too) when it comes to the bringing into existence of the church. I haven’t had the opportunity to talk anymore with the catechist about it. I probably should have titled the thread differently.
 
The official “birthday” of the Church is on Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles. This may be what he means.
 
Michael's Sword:
Are you certain this person actually has theological training? My parish uses volunteers and some of them are not very well educated. I went to RCIA to try to refresh my knowledge and ended up having to try to correct the errors they were teahcing.

sigh…
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Yup. Most parishes deal in volunteers. I know our is. Although our new priest is the one who does RCIA and he is very knowledgeable.

But I hope that now you realize that you have more knowledge than many at your church you have volunteered yourself? Usually those who teach are not necessarily most qualified, but just willing.

God Bless,
Maria

Funny little poem, don’t remember all of it but it kind of goes like this. At lot longer but…

Everybody was able to do the job. But nobody imagined that somebody wasn’t already doing it so no one volunteered.
 
Jesus founded the Church…!

But… I might add that in scripture I don’t see where Jesus said he would build…“My Catholic Church”… I do see and read where Jesus says in scripture “My Church”…! 👍
 
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EPHRIAM777:
Jesus founded the Church…!

But… I might add that in scripture I don’t see where Jesus said he would build…“My Catholic Church”… I do see and read where Jesus says in scripture “My Church”…! 👍
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You won’t find the word Bible, Trinity or Sola Scriptura in scripture either.
 
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EPHRIAM777:
Jesus founded the Church…!

But… I might add that in scripture I don’t see where Jesus said he would build…“My Catholic Church”… I do see and read where Jesus says in scripture “My Church”…! 👍
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Can you show me where it says, “I will build my Protestant Church?”

“Catholic” means “universal.” He built one and only one Church. He meant it for everyone – that is, He meant it to be universal.

And the Church He built remains, teaching a constant, coherent message. Those who split off have quarreled, splintered, split from each other and resplit to produce literally thousands of quarrelling churches.
 
buffalo said:
You won’t find the word Bible, Trinity or Sola Scriptura in scripture either.
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Hi All
You may nt find the actual word “Bible” in the scriptures but you will find “Word of God” more than 45 times in the scriptures, which that what the Bible is, the word of God. As far as the Trinity
here are 3 scriptures

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19].

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14].

To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2].

As far as sola scriptura goes, here is a link that describes it pretty well sola-scriptura.ca/whatis.htm

In Him and Him Only
 
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NonDenom:
Hi All
You may nt find the actual word “Bible” in the scriptures but you will find “Word of God” more than 45 times in the scriptures, which that what the Bible is, the word of God. As far as the Trinity
here are 3 scriptures

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19].

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14].

To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2].

As far as sola scriptura goes, here is a link that describes it pretty well sola-scriptura.ca/whatis.htm

In Him and Him Only
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The “Word of God” that you refer to, I believe would be referring to Jesus or perhaps it was also referring to the Word of God in the Old Testament.

It couldn’t possibly be referring to the bible because the bible did not exist at the time the letters of the New Testament were written. The bible, in “book” form, did not exist until the 4th century.

What you believe about the Trinity came from Catholic theologians. It is, as you have demonstrated, an implied basis in scripture. Sola Scriptura has absolutely no basis or implied meaning in scripture whatsoever and none of the Apostles, their successors, early christians or early theologians/church doctors/fathers have ever taught such.

Your bible, that you hold so dear, IS a Tradition of the Catholic Church! It came from the Catholic Church and even the early reformers recognized and proclaimed that.
 
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