Why have Evangelicals allied themselves with Israel & Zionists?

[JSmitty2005]

Why have Evangelicals allied themselves so closely with the Zionist Jews? I don’t understand this. Christians in the Holy Land have more favorable views of Muslims than they do Jews, so why do these American Christians feel so drawn to them?

 

[Veritas41]

Because they believe the Jews are still God’s chosen people and we have more in common with the Jews than the Muslims as far as our beliefs

 

[JSmitty2005]

Veritas41:

Because they believe the Jews are still God’s chosen people and we have more in common with the Jews than the Muslims as far as our beliefs

But they’re wrong on both points. The Jews are no longer God’s people, Christians are…specifically members of the Church (Catholics). Also, we have more in common with Muslims, don’t we? They believe in certain things about Jesus whereas the Jews have rejected Him altogether.

 

[Kevan]

Most evangelicals believe in the premillennial return of Christ and the establishment of a literal 1000 year kingdom based in Israel with a reinstitution of the Israelite sacrificial system–a literal fulfillment of the covenant made with Abraham, which included the promise “I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee.”

They see (or saw) Zionism as God’s movement to bring Israel back into the land so that the kingdom would be ready to roll upon Jesus’ return.

The last thirty years have taken a lot of wind out of the movement’s sails, but the the die-hards are still as insistent as ever that Israel’s cause is God’s cause.

 

[puzzleannie]

my grandmother and her family were big on this because they felt, or the preachers they follow said, that the establishment of the state of Israel signals the beginning of the signs of the second coming, or tribulation or whatever, and the kingdom is near, which means I suppose that all us Catholics and other no-goods will soon be left behind while the good guys are enraptured.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I don’t have the verse handy, but God prophesied in the Old Testament that any nation that blesses Israel will be blessed and any nation that curses Israel will be cursed. They believe that God’s word is eternally true.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Okay, so how do the evangelicals support this stance? And how can we rebut it?

 

[Veritas41]

Here’s what the Catechism says about it:

“Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” *The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. *When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, ‘the first to hear the Word of God.’ The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Testament. To the Jews ‘belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ’; 'for the gifts and the call of God *are irrevocable *italics mine]." CCC 839

You might want to read the whole Scripture passages that the above quoted verses are from: Romans 9 and Romans 11

About Muslims, the Church says in paragraph 841:

“*The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. '*The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

As you can see, we have much more in common with the Jews than the Muslims as far as religious beliefs.

 

[melbourne_guy]

Agreed with the point that we have more in common with the jews then the muslims. The muslims have changed many of the old testament stories to suit their own agenda while we still share the o.t with the jews.

Christians in the Holy Land have more favorable views of Muslims than they do Jews

Now i highly doubt that point is true. Remember the crusades, they were a retaliation agaisnt the muslims for treating christians badly when going to visit jerusalem. Im a catholic and i would definately rather the jews be there then the muslims since i know the jews wont tear down any of our ancient churches and replace them with synogues.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Veritas41:

As you can see, we have much more in common with the Jews than the Muslims as far as religious beliefs.

A simple quote from the Catechism does not prove this. For example, Muslims believe that both Jesus and Mary were sinless (as do we) and also that Jesus will come a second time. Those are just two examples, but I just went to a lecture by Fr. Pacwa that was all about it. He had many more examples. I’m not saying that we don’t have a lot of differences, but we also have a lot of differences with the Jews.

 

[JSmitty2005]

melbourne_guy:

Now i highly doubt that point is true. Remember the crusades, they were a retaliation agaisnt the muslims for treating christians badly when going to visit jerusalem. Im a catholic and i would definately rather the jews be there then the muslims since i know the jews wont tear down any of our ancient churches and replace them with synogues.

Actually, the Jews have been trying to destroy the Church from day 1. Muslims often times converted churches into mosques. That’s why JP2 visited that one mosque. It had the remains of John the Baptist in it because it was once a church.

Christians in the Holy Land are more likely to ally themselves with the Muslims than they are the Jews. For example, in Lebanon, all Muslims and 99% of Christians say they have a very unfavorable view of Jews. You have to remember that the Judaism of Christ’s time and the Judaism of today are VERY different. In fact, Jews of today have some anti-Jesus stuff written in their Talmud.

See here:

holywar.org/txt/Talmud/talmudx.htm

 

[Veritas41]

JSmitty2005:

Actually, the Jews have been trying to destroy the Church from day 1. Muslims often times converted churches into mosques. That’s why JP2 visited that one mosque. It had the remains of John the Baptist in it because it was once a church.

Christians in the Holy Land are more likely to ally themselves with the Muslims than they are the Jews. For example, in Lebanon, all Muslims and 99% of Christians say they have a very unfavorable view of Jews. You have to remember that the Judaism of Christ’s time and the Judaism of today are VERY different. In fact, Jews of today have some anti-Jesus stuff written in their Talmud.

See here:

holywar.org/txt/Talmud/talmudx.htm

The Jews have been trying to destroy the Church and not Muslims? Have you bothered to read medieval history? The area around the Mediterranean Sea (Near East and North Africa) was largely Christian until the Muslims started advancing their empire. Now all those areas have Christian minorities and Muslim majorities. I’m not aware of the Jews ever having a full-scale attack on the Church/Christians the way Muslims have, and it’s Muslims, not Jews, in countries like Nigeria that are trying to ram Sharia law down Christian’s throats.
I don’t care if 100% of the Muslims and Christians in the Holy Land have an unfavorable view of Jews. I don’t base my beliefs on polls. And yes, the Judaism of today is different from that of Jesus’ time, but according to the Bible and Church teaching, the Jews still have a special place in God’s plan of salvation.

 

[pro_universal]

I don’t care if 100% of the Muslims and Christians in the Holy Land have an unfavorable view of Jews. I don’t base my beliefs on polls. And yes, the Judaism of today is different from that of Jesus’ time, but according to the Bible and Church teaching, the Jews still have a special place in God’s plan of salvation.

The Israelis have not made a policy of asking whether or not a Palestinian family is Muslim or Christian before razing its home to build another settlement.

The evangelicals have allied themselves with Israel for apocalyptic reasons and also because the Palestinian Christians who have been divested of homes, rights, and in many cases lives by the Israeli military forces are mostly Catholic. If the Palestinians had all become members of American Protestant Churches in 1947, It is a virtual certainty that the Evangelicals would not be reacting the same way to Israeli policy towards Arab Palestinians.

The condition today of all Palestinians, Muslim and Catholic, is a stain on the record of the United Nations and especially the United States for their turning a blind eye towards gross human rights absuses and aggression by the Israeli state.

 

[Veritas41]

I wasn’t looking narrowly at only Israel. I’m speaking generally of Jews and Muslims. Yes, there have been human rights abuses in Israel, just like we’ve had human rights abuses right here in our own country. Take a look at human rights abuses in Muslim countries and compare them to human rights abuses in Israel, and the Muslim countries don’t exactly come off as shining examples of respect for human rights.

And from what I’ve seen, it looks to me like the Israelies have been more willing to work for peace than Palestinian Muslims.

 

[pro_universal]

Veritas41:

I wasn’t looking narrowly at only Israel. I’m speaking generally of Jews and Muslims. Yes, there have been human rights abuses in Israel, just like we’ve had human rights abuses right here in our own country. Take a look at human rights abuses in Muslim countries and compare them to human rights abuses in Israel, and the Muslim countries don’t exactly come off as shining examples of respect for human rights.

The above is true. What I don’t understand is how comparing the human rights abuses of US history and current Arab states’ excuses Israeli human rights abuses. I support reform and an end to human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia too; that doesn’t mean I have to ignore the crimes that have been visited upon the Palestinians.

Veritas41:

And from what I’ve seen, it looks to me like the Israelies have been more willing to work for peace than Palestinian Muslims.

I have seen no such thing. The Palestinian Christians are on the side of the Muslims in this conflict, and for good reason: it is about land and civil rights more than anything else. The Israelis have never recognized the Palestinian right to vote, the Palestinian right to a state, or the Palestinian right to retain territory that it was granted by international agreement.

They have also used methods of warfare that are absolutely abhorrent, including the use of aircraft bombings to kill individual terrorists in Apartment buildings full of people. I honestly do not see how a Catholic in good conscience can support the kinds of military policies that have been followed in Israel.

 

[Muslim]

well one thing is… Jews have the money…
second… Islam is an enemy to the evangelicals and therefor they must side with someone else who does not hold favorable view towards Muslims (ie the Israelis)

There are tons of Palestinian Christians as well and I know couple of them and they want their land back just as much as any other Palestinian…

I believe there are some hasidic Jews who does not favor zionism and infact oppose Israel. If you go to Israel, which is supposed to be a holy land, it has turned into a land full of immoral people with drinking, drugs, sex, clubs, homosexuals, etc. everywhere.

Remember, Palestinian is an ethnicity not a religion.

 

[SemperJase]

JSmitty2005:

Actually, the Jews have been trying to destroy the Church from day 1. Muslims often times converted churches into mosques.

So conquering Christian lands and converting churches into mosques is a sign of unity? Please. I suppose when they rail against ‘crusaders’ and threatening that our streets will run with blood also proves that we have more in common?

One thing you forgot, Jesus is a Jew. The apostles were all Jews. Our tradition has its roots in Judaism.

 

[lorrainerich]

SemperJase:

So conquering Christian lands and converting churches into mosques is a sign of unity? Please. I suppose when they rail against ‘crusaders’ and threatening that our streets will run with blood also proves that we have more in common?

One thing you forgot, Jesus is a Jew. The apostles were all Jews. Our tradition has its roots in Judaism.

But you forgot, Muslims even have more common with Judaism than with the Christianity of Paul. From belief in ONE TRUE GOD (monotheism) to many dietry laws. And especially Arabs being the descendents of ONE father (Prophet) Abraham. Then Islam has a special place for general Jews as among the People of the Book.

The real culprits are the political Zionists who are not even true Jews in the eyes of those Jews who disagree with them theologically and still waiting for their Messiah.

Intelligent Jews like Einstien have opposed Zionists’ agenda because they knew it is not coming out of their scriptures but from politically motivated conspiracy and to keep Jews away from Europe after the mass massacre of Jews in Adolf Hitlers’ civilised Germany.

Evangelicals are more political and less religious. Their main agenda is to be friend of enemy’s enemy. And their Biblical interpretation is simply to grab common Christians who never get chance/or have no time at all to read their Bible critically and objectively. It is not a surprise that a great number of Christians of America get deceived by the Evangelicalism/NeoCons., because in that same America there are people who worship Satan and there are people who live absolutely naked and even they force their children to live naked. Not to mention there was a time when even Rajnish was able to make Americans his followers.

 

[melbourne_guy]

JSmitty2005:

Actually, the Jews have been trying to destroy the Church from day

Really, i would like to hear how they have gone about this?

jsmitty2005:

1. Muslims often times converted churches into mosques.

Exactly why i would prefer the jews their.

jsmitty2005:

Christians in the Holy Land are more likely to ally themselves with the Muslims than they are the Jews.

Explain why? Im aware that palestian christians dislike the jews because of the land issue but thats besides the point. Their reasons for wanting the Jews out isnt in the best interests of our holy land.

jsmitty2005:

For example, in Lebanon, all Muslims and 99% of Christians say they have a very unfavorable view of Jews.

This means absolutely nothing to me. Hitler and the nazis also had an unfavorable view of the Jews.

jsmitty2005:

You have to remember that the Judaism of Christ’s time and the Judaism of today are VERY different. In fact, Jews of today have some anti-Jesus stuff written in their Talmud.

That doesnt bother me at all. Actions speak louder then words and the sefety of our holy land has been better off with the Jews.
How many more churches will the muslims convert to mosques if the jews leave?

 

[BillyT92679]

pro_universal:

The Israelis have not made a policy of asking whether or not a Palestinian family is Muslim or Christian before razing its home to build another settlement.

The evangelicals have allied themselves with Israel for apocalyptic reasons and also because the Palestinian Christians who have been divested of homes, rights, and in many cases lives by the Israeli military forces are mostly Catholic. If the Palestinians had all become members of American Protestant Churches in 1947, It is a virtual certainty that the Evangelicals would not be reacting the same way to Israeli policy towards Arab Palestinians.

The condition today of all Palestinians, Muslim and Catholic, is a stain on the record of the United Nations and especially the United States for their turning a blind eye towards gross human rights absuses and aggression by the Israeli state.

Actually, Palestinian Christians are mostly Orthodox Christians, then Catholics, then Protestants.