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JJjamin71472583
Guest
Will someone please explain how Jesus who is God can die? Could you also please use reference from the Catechism and from scripture? You do not have to though. Thanks a lot.
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Eileen_T
Guest
Jesus was fully divine and fully human. The Nicene Creed says that Jesus is “one in being with the Father.” And the Catechism of the Catholic Church 479 says that “without losing his divine nature he has assumed human nature.”
As God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, He is an Infinite Being. As Jesus, the son of Mary, He had a finite body which could feel pain and die.
You might get a better understanding if you go here scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm and read what the Catechism has to say, *Paragraph 1. The Son of God Became Man *
As God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, He is an Infinite Being. As Jesus, the son of Mary, He had a finite body which could feel pain and die.
You might get a better understanding if you go here scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm and read what the Catechism has to say, *Paragraph 1. The Son of God Became Man *
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Coder
Guest
My father explained to me that His body died, not His Spirit.
In fact, if you define death as eternal, then Jesus did not die according to that definition. Since He had the power to rise, one might say that His death was not death in the sense of no hope. His death was not permanent so to speak. This transformation of death is our cause for joy. Dying He destroyed our death.
Jesus said He lays His life down and takes it back up. Death had no power over Him.
In fact, if you define death as eternal, then Jesus did not die according to that definition. Since He had the power to rise, one might say that His death was not death in the sense of no hope. His death was not permanent so to speak. This transformation of death is our cause for joy. Dying He destroyed our death.
Jesus said He lays His life down and takes it back up. Death had no power over Him.
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JimG
Guest
Jesus dies in the same sense that we all die. His body became lifeless and was separated from his soul.
In his human nature, Jesus had both a human body and a human soul, so he was capable of dying. Death is the separation of body and soul.
His (human) soul did not die, just as our soul will not die at death.
Neither did his divine nature, which, while being hypostatically united to his human nature, always kept its divinity.
In his human nature, Jesus had both a human body and a human soul, so he was capable of dying. Death is the separation of body and soul.
His (human) soul did not die, just as our soul will not die at death.
Neither did his divine nature, which, while being hypostatically united to his human nature, always kept its divinity.
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
Just a bit of correction here, while Jesus has both human and divine natures, he has only a divine soul.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Check out something called the “hypostatic union”.
Please also keep in mind: God in INFINITE.
We, humans, have a tendency to regard God as being just like us humans, only smarter… but the fact is that we REALLY cannot imagine what God is really like or what His capabilities really are.
We, humans, are very limited in our ability to understand things.
In a way, one could safely say that all of the understanding and intelligence of the entire human race from the beginning of time, if combined, would be less than the equivalent of a fly speck on the wall… compared to the Infinity of God.
If we were to invent the life forms found on the planet Earth, would we invent, first a molten liquid metal blob, spinning at 1000 mph, with a paper thin crust that moves around, and with a tiny amount of water and air… and several thousand leaks of the molten core… AND orbiting a star at PRECISELY the right distance, AND having a magnetic field to protect the blob from cosmic and solar radiation… and having a huge array of life-forms from viruses to platypusses to (former) dinosaurs to … humans… not to mention a variety of digestive systems AND DNA. And the periodic table of elements.
None of us can explain any of this… and we also have a problem even with our background dreaming up some alternative biology/chemistry/physics/astronomy.
So, why is it we cannot comprehend the hypostatic union… true God and true man.
We, humans, are just too pathetic.
Please also keep in mind: God in INFINITE.
We, humans, have a tendency to regard God as being just like us humans, only smarter… but the fact is that we REALLY cannot imagine what God is really like or what His capabilities really are.
We, humans, are very limited in our ability to understand things.
In a way, one could safely say that all of the understanding and intelligence of the entire human race from the beginning of time, if combined, would be less than the equivalent of a fly speck on the wall… compared to the Infinity of God.
If we were to invent the life forms found on the planet Earth, would we invent, first a molten liquid metal blob, spinning at 1000 mph, with a paper thin crust that moves around, and with a tiny amount of water and air… and several thousand leaks of the molten core… AND orbiting a star at PRECISELY the right distance, AND having a magnetic field to protect the blob from cosmic and solar radiation… and having a huge array of life-forms from viruses to platypusses to (former) dinosaurs to … humans… not to mention a variety of digestive systems AND DNA. And the periodic table of elements.
None of us can explain any of this… and we also have a problem even with our background dreaming up some alternative biology/chemistry/physics/astronomy.
So, why is it we cannot comprehend the hypostatic union… true God and true man.
We, humans, are just too pathetic.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
The Church has accepted 3 Great Creeds - The most descriptive is known as the Athanasian Creed or the “Quicumque vult” (“Whomsover Will”). Here is what the Athanasian Creed has to say:
*It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man. As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.
He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God. He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.
He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.*
creeds.net/ancient/Quicumque.html
I hope that clarifies things.
In Christ, Michael
*It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man. As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.
He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God. He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.
He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.*
creeds.net/ancient/Quicumque.html
I hope that clarifies things.
In Christ, Michael
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JimG
Guest
Dr. Colossus:
The hypostatic union consists in the second Person of the Trinity assuming a human nature.
A human nature includes both a body and a soul. It is by having a human nature that Jesus (as man) was able to grow in knowledge and wisdom as he grew up. It is how he could have both human knowledge and divine knowledge. Human knowledge is the product of the human intellect, which is a faculty of the human soul. (It follows that, having a human soul, he also had a human will, as well as a divine will.)
What he did not have is human personhood. The person who is Jesus is the person of the Second Person of the Trinity–the Divine Word. One Person–already possessing the divine nature–Who assumed a complete human nature as well.
I don’t think that is correct, but I don’t have time to look it up tonight.
The hypostatic union consists in the second Person of the Trinity assuming a human nature.
A human nature includes both a body and a soul. It is by having a human nature that Jesus (as man) was able to grow in knowledge and wisdom as he grew up. It is how he could have both human knowledge and divine knowledge. Human knowledge is the product of the human intellect, which is a faculty of the human soul. (It follows that, having a human soul, he also had a human will, as well as a divine will.)
What he did not have is human personhood. The person who is Jesus is the person of the Second Person of the Trinity–the Divine Word. One Person–already possessing the divine nature–Who assumed a complete human nature as well.
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
You’re right JimG. I was thinking of human personhood.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
James 2:26 defines death as seperation of body and spirit. So, the spirit of Jesus ( both fully human and fully God ) simply seperated from the body. Death is not a ceasing to exist.
1 Peter 3:19
through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
Ephesians 4:9
(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
Romans 14:8 (New International Version)
If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Philippians 1
21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
1 Peter 3:19
through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
Ephesians 4:9
(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
Romans 14:8 (New International Version)
If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Philippians 1
21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
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Ted_CharlotteNC
Guest
I will give you one that I find great comfort in:
When Thomas doubted Jesus had risen, he said unless I put my finger in the hole in his hand and put his hand in his side he would not believe.
Jesus came back the next week and showed Himself to Thomas.
Thomas said “My Lord and My God”
Thomas, who had been with Jesus for maybe 3 years had to be convinced. And we can rely on this eye witness account.
JJ, it is not an easy concept, I suggest you memorize the Apostles Creed. It helps remind me everyday how much our Lord Jesus did for us. God bless you for your question.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Ted CharlotteNC:
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