1 Corinthians 11:3-16 - Women must veil their heads to pray

[eliasaph99]

1 Corinthians 11:3-16

“The head to which a wife is united is her husband, just as the head to which every man is united is Christ; so, too, the head to which Christ is united is God.[1] 4 And whereas any man who keeps his head covered when he prays or utters prophecy brings shame upon his head, 5 a woman brings shame upon her head if she uncovers it to pray or prophesy; she is no better than the woman who has her head shaved.[2] 6 If a woman would go without a veil, why does she not cut her hair short too? If she admits that a woman is disgraced when her hair is cut short or shaved, then let her go veiled. 7 A man has no need to veil his head; he is God’s image, the pride of his creation, whereas the wife is the pride of her husband. 8 (The woman takes her origin from the man, not the man from the woman;[3] 9 and indeed, it was not man that was created for woman’s sake, but woman for man’s.) 10 And for that reason the woman ought to have authority over her head, for the angels’ sake.[4] 11 (Not that, in the Lord’s service, man has his place apart from woman, or woman hers apart from man; 12 if woman takes her origin from man, man equally comes to birth through woman. And indeed all things have their origin in God.) 13 Judge for yourselves; is it fitting that a woman should offer prayer to God unveiled? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that, whereas it is a disgrace to a man to wear his hair long, 15 when a woman grows her hair long, it is an added grace to her? That is because her hair has been given her to take the place of a veil. 16 And if anyone is prepared to argue the matter, he must know that no such custom is found among us, or in any of God’s churches.[5]”

These verses seem to state in a straightforward manner that a woman must cover her head when she prays. I know that it was the practice in Catholic churches until relatively recently that women did so.

Why is this no longer practiced or preached?

What is the historical context in which this was delivered?

 

[worldwideweary]

This is to prove that the women aren’t actually praying but only give an outward appearance of religion
Forgive me.

 

[adamhovey1988]

This is to prove that the women aren’t actually praying but only give an outward appearance of religion
Forgive me.

You are funny!

 

[Fiasco]

There’s a good sermon (on OoToob) which gives a good explanation of the reason for veils. It symbolises the great dignity of WOMAN, and the truth that she is a Sacred Temple in whom God creates new life. All sacred things are veiled.
Women are not degraded by hair coverings: the exact opposite.

The title of the sermon is: Why Veils? The Symbolism of Head Covering

The whole thing should be watched, but it can be jumped to about 5:00 minutes in:

youtube.com/watch?v=xnh4DchxfEw

 

[Lea101]

There’s a good sermon (on OoToob) which gives a good explanation of the reason for veils. It symbolises the great dignity of WOMAN, and the truth that she is a Sacred Temple in whom God creates new life. All sacred things are veiled.
Women are not degraded by hair coverings: the exact opposite.

The title of the sermon is: Why Veils? The Symbolism of Head Covering

The whole thing should be watched, but it can be jumped to about 5:00 minutes in:

youtube.com/watch?v=xnh4DchxfEw

Does it contain sources that show us that Jewish/early Christians implemented head coverings for this reason?

I don’t have time to sit through it at the moment. From my understanding, the whole “woman is sacred” reason seems to be presented as an alternative fact. I.e it wasn’t the reason why head coverings were required, but it was a pretty reason to defend head coverings.

(correct me if I’m wrong)

Anyway, op, from what I’ve read, women who do not cover their heads in cultures like that were seen as less virtuous.

In other cultures now, we are not scandalized by women walking around with certain hair styles, let alone uncovered heads.

Not sure how good this reason is as it seems too simplistic though.

 

[Fiasco]

Does it contain sources that show us that Jewish/early Christians implemented head coverings for this reason?

No. After all, it’s a sermon. And the reasons behind it hadn’t been grasped.

I don’t have time to sit through it at the moment. From my understanding, the whole “woman is sacred” reason seems to be presented as an alternative fact. I.e it wasn’t the reason why head coverings were required, but it was a pretty reason to defend head coverings.

Woman IS sacred. As said already, she’s the sacred vessel in whom God chooses to create new life. That’s an awesome privilege that women have over men, and it shouldn’t be taken lightly, despite what today’s Western “society” would prefer us to believe.
As the priest says, our understanding of the reason for veiling has increased during the past 100 years, or even the past fifty or sixty years. But no one hears about it. He mentions Pope John Paul II who, he points out, wrote “extensively” on the relationship between men and women.

It’s tragic that most of today’s Western women don’t even realise their own dignity.

In other cultures now, we are not scandalized by women walking around with certain hair styles, let alone uncovered heads.

Don’t forget the only issue we’re talking about is when women are “in church”.

Not sure how good this reason is as it seems too simplistic though.

The only way to understand what the priest is saying is to listen to his sermon. i can’t dredge up the right words. Even if i could, it’d take up an agonising amount of time and effort.
Sounds like you’re prejudging.

What’s simplistic about the awesome role of women? Today’s PC society would deny that, of course, but being so decadent, what it says is irrelevant.
Anyway, the priest stresses that no one HAS to wear a veil.

There are other videos “there” when you go to the one directly linked to, and it’s revealing to hear what the veil wearers say, and that includes teenage girls.

Stated in that earlier post:
If you don’t like the first part, you can start at the 5 minute mark.

 

[Lea101]

No. After all, it’s a sermon. And the reasons behind it hadn’t been grasped.

Woman IS sacred. As said already, she’s the sacred vessel in whom God chooses to create new life. That’s an awesome privilege that women have over men, and it shouldn’t be taken lightly, despite what today’s Western “society” would prefer us to believe.
As the priest says, our understanding of the reason for veiling has increased during the past 100 years, or even the past fifty or sixty years. But no one hears about it. He mentions Pope John Paul II who, he points out, wrote “extensively” on the relationship between men and women.

It’s tragic that most of today’s Western women don’t even realise their own dignity.

Don’t forget the only issue we’re talking about is when women are “in church”.

The only way to understand what the priest is saying is to listen to his sermon. i can’t dredge up the right words. Even if i could, it’d take up an agonising amount of time and effort.
Sounds like you’re prejudging.

What’s simplistic about the awesome role of women? Today’s PC society would deny that, of course, but being so decadent, what it says is irrelevant.
Anyway, the priest stresses that no one HAS to wear a veil.

There are other videos “there” when you go to the one directly linked to, and it’s revealing to hear what the veil wearers say, and that includes teenage girls.

Stated in that earlier post:
If you don’t like the first part, you can start at the 5 minute mark.

The simplistic reason I was talking about was the cultural standards of modesty I mentioned.

In regards to the priest’s point though, I meant that was not the reason why head coverings were required in the first place. It seems to be like another reason that could be applied to it because it seems fitting. Like how some women say they veil to show reverence and humility to the Eucharist.

What IS this awesome role of women? Many women don’t want to be mothers, or they can’t even if they tried. Some don’t have a single maternal bone in their body. Some don’t even have a full reproductive system. She wasn’t created for new life. So obviously this role isn’t so talked about because it doesn’t apply to all of us. Anyway, I don’t mean the hijack the thread, if you want to respond to the last part I think you should PM me instead of posting here so it won’t turn ugly

 

[Fiasco]

In regards to the priest’s point though, I meant that was not the reason why head coverings were required in the first place. It seems to be like another reason that could be applied to it because it seems fitting. Like how some women say they veil to show reverence and humility to the Eucharist.

It goes deeper than just reverence and humility in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

What IS this awesome role of women?

As said earlier, new life comes into being inside a woman, not inside a man. If you can’t see that there’s something special about that…
We’re not talking about just animal acts like with cats and dogs. Each of us has an immortal soul which God creates at the moment of conception. If that’s not awesome, what is it?

Many women don’t want to be mothers, or they can’t even if they tried. Some don’t have a single maternal bone in their body. Some don’t even have a full reproductive system. She wasn’t created for new life.

All the same, inside the body of a woman is the chosen place. As the priest says, even if a woman doesn’t ever bear a child, she’s still special. Citing cases where women have physical flaws which prevent conception is like tossing out a red herring.

That link was put there in case anyone wants to go deeper into it. i can’t spend however many frustrating hours trying to convince someone into watching that sermon which lasts for only 23 minutes. Surely 23 minutes isn’t so long!

If you won’t believe me, and don’t want to listen to that video, i can’t force you.

So obviously this role isn’t so talked about because it doesn’t apply to all of us.

That makes no difference to the fact that Man and Woman are created the way they are with the intention of bringing new life into the world.
“…male and female He created them…”

If individual women don’t have children, that doesn’t disprove the overarching purpose of God’s design. The same goes for men, of course.

Anyway, I don’t mean the hijack the thread, if you want to respond to the last part I think you should PM me instead of posting here so it won’t turn ugly

It’s public, or nothing.
That video, and others, are there for anyone who wants to dig into a rich vein.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

I find the idea that women are “sacred” kind of patronising and an exaggeration. Definition:

“connected with God or a god or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration”.

I don’t know any living woman (bar Our Lady) that it would be right to venerate.

The head covering was a tradition. It isn’t anymore. You can do it if you want. Just like it really isn’t a big deal if a guy wears a beanie in Mass - because it isn’t part of etiquette anymore for a man to take off his hat indoors so he isn’t being disrespectful.

OP, I think that in this example, St. Paul was talking to people of a certain culture and what he was saying doesn’t strictly apply nowadays. Some things are cultural.

For example a knee length skirt or modest pants worn to mass by a woman would once have been scandalous. That is no longer the case.

 

[Moro_Rock]

Personally, I think that some of the hijabs which Muslim women wear are very becoming. I have one myself, but do not wear it because its a religious symbol.

 

[Fiasco]

I find the idea that women are “sacred” kind of patronising and an exaggeration.

How could the idea that women are sacred temples/sacred vessels be “kind of patronising and an exaggeration”? It’s giving Woman due honour.
As the priest says: the chalice is veiled, the ciborium is veiled. The Holy of Holies was veiled. Etc.

Definition:
“connected with God or a god or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration”.

I don’t know any living woman (bar Our Lady) that it would be right to venerate.

Instead of ridiculing the “concept”, why don’t you listen to the sermon which, as already stated, is only 23 minutes in length? Your respect for women might even go up!

The head covering was a tradition. It isn’t anymore. You can do it if you want. Just like it really isn’t a big deal if a guy wears a beanie in Mass - because it isn’t part of etiquette anymore for a man to take off his hat indoors so he isn’t being disrespectful.

OP, I think that in this example, St. Paul was talking to people of a certain culture and what he was saying doesn’t strictly apply nowadays. Some things are cultural.

You’re missing the point of it, and prejudging.

Personally, I think that some of the hijabs which Muslim women wear are very becoming.

You’re right. It frames their faces in a very serene way.