1 John 5:7 (Jerusalem Bible)

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Frankk

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Does anyone know why the Jerusalem Bible omits verse 7 of 1 John 5, which reads in the KJV:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one?
 
Frankk said:
Does anyone know why the Jerusalem Bible omits verse 7 of 1 John 5, which reads in the KJV:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one?
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Hi

the Jerusalem reads
vs 7-- reads as follows: so that there are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water and the blood, and all three of them agree.

Now there is a footnote that says Vulg. vv.7-8 reads as follows"There are three witnesses in heaven: THE FATHER THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT, AND THESE THREE ARE ONE: THERE ARE THREE WITNESSES ON EARTH: the Spirit the water and the blood". The words in italics (not in any of the early Greek MSS, or any of the early translations, or in the best MSS of the Vulg. itself) are probably a gloss that has crept into the text.(sorry I don’t know how to make italics so I caped them)

JeanneH

If you have a Jerusalem Bible check it out. Hope this helps.
 
I think JeanneH has given a very good explanation for the differences so hopefully what I write will not distract from her post.

Just to re-emphasize what she wrote, what we find in the KJV seems to be a “Gloss” that found its way into the translation itself. A “Gloss”, simply put, was a commentary put under a particular passage. What happen, at times, was a gloss became so important in the interpretation of the verse or passage that scribes who were reproducing a scriptural text incorporated the gloss into the text itself. This seems to be the case with 1John 5: 6-8, or as it is often called “The Johannine Comma” (comma being part of a sentence that was added) which seems to have worked into the text itself in the third or fourth centuries but is not found in earlier manuscriptes nor in many copies of the Vulgate.

This passage illustrates why, when translating the scriptures, there is the desire to use text in the original language that are older and less likely to have additions to it like the “Johannine Comma” as well as using as many source text to work towards a translation that is closest to the original text. And why this will be an on going process possibly forever.
 
For the sake of comparison

DRV:
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

RSV-CE:
And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

NAB
So there are three that testify,

NIV
For there are three that testify:

KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 
fantrl said:
For the sake of comparison

DRV:
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

RSV-CE:
And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

NAB
So there are three that testify,

NIV
For there are three that testify:

KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Click to expand...
Your quotes from the RSV-CE, the NAB and the NIV are incomplete.

RSV-CE:
There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.

NAB:
So there are three that testify, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.

NIV:
For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NIV footnote:
Late manuscripts of the Vulgate: 7 For there are three that testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)
 
Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. My next task is to get hold of an interlinear bible and read the original Greek for myself!!

Thanks again.
 
Frankk said:
Does anyone know why the Jerusalem Bible omits verse 7 of 1 John 5, which reads in the KJV:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one?
Click to expand...
Comma Ioanneum: Some Lat witnesses contain an expansion of 1 John 5: 7-8; “because there are three who testify in heaven, Father, Word, and Holy Spirit; and these three are one; and there are three who testify on earth, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three are unto one.” This expanded reading, the so-called Johannine Comma, is not attested before the 4th cent Ad. It begins to appear in mss. Of the Vg of Spanish provenience in the 8th cent. and in some Carolingian copies of the Vg, though more mss. prior to AD 1200 lack the expansion than contain it. Its presence in the Vg led to the inclusion of a Gk rendering of it in Erasmus’s 3d ed. of the Gk NT (1522), whence it found its way into the textus receptus (1633) and the KJV and Rheims translation. Modern textual critics would agree with Erasmus’s judgment that this Lat reading does not represent an original variant of the Gk text of 1 John. It follows a theological tradition attested from 3d cent. Church Fathers (Cyprian, De ecclesiae catholicae unitate 6; CC3. 254; Augustine, Contra Maximinum 2.22.3; PL 42. 794-95), appealed to this text in combination with John 10:30 to provide scriptural evidence for the orthodox doctrine of the equality and unity of persons in the Trinity. Ref: Jerome Biblical Commentary
 
fantrl said:
For the sake of comparison

DRV:
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

RSV-CE:
And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

NAB
So there are three that testify,

NIV
For there are three that testify:

KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Click to expand...
Manfred said:
Your quotes from the RSV-CE, the NAB and the NIV are incomplete.

RSV-CE:
There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.

NAB:
So there are three that testify, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.

NIV:
For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NIV footnote:
Late manuscripts of the Vulgate: 7 For there are three that testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)
Click to expand...
In either case here: It looks l;ike the translators of the 16th century(DR + KJV) were looking at the same/similar versions, while the newer versions were taken from another…
 
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