1 John and sin

[pneuma07]

We can read in 1 John, Ch 1 and 2 (NAB)

*God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say, “We have fellowship with him,” while we continue to walk in darkness, we lie and do not act in truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
10 If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

My children, I am writing this to you so that you may not commit sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one.
2 He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.
3 The way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his command ments.
4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not keep his commandments is a liar*

We also read about sin this in Ch 3

*Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness.
5 You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
6 No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him.
7 Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8 Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. *

And this too, in Ch. 5

*If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.
18 We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him. *

( BTW everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.
Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. 4:7-8, and *Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God, and everyone who loves the father loves (also) the one begotten by him. 5:1 * )

I’d like insights aimed at showing the underlying harmony of these teachings, which, beyond the struggle against any gnosticism, appear to give universal statements.

Thanks in advance for your contributions.

 

[pneuma07]

8 If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

We also read about sin this in Ch 3

6 No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him.
9 No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God.

And this too, in Ch. 5

*If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. *
18 We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.

(*everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.
Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. 4:7-8, and Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God 5:1 *)

I’d like insights aimed at showing the underlying harmony of these teachings, which, beyond the struggle against any gnosticism, appear to give universal statements.

Thanks in advance for your contributions.

Looking for help in St. Augustine. He notes ( in his “Homily 5 on 1 John”) :

*it is no slight question, how he says in this Epistle, «Whosoever is born of God, sins not,» 1 John 3:9 and how in the same Epistle he has said above, «If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.» 1 John 1:8 *.

He says not, «Have not had;» lest haply it should seem to be spoken of the past life.

No slight question. Here is Augustine’s proposed solution:

in this that he says, «Whoso is born of God, does not sin,» you may understand some one particular sin, which that man who is born of God cannot commit: and such is that sin that, if one commit it, it confirms the rest. What is this sin? To do contrary to the commandment. What is the commandment? «A new commandment give I unto you, that you love one another.» John 13:34 Mark well! This commandment of Christ is called, «love.» By this love sins are loosed. If this love be not kept, the not holding it is at once a grievous sin, and the root of all sins. …

*Let him hear that which shall set his mind at rest from another place of Scripture; «Charity covers a multitude of sins.» 1 Peter 4:8
4. Charity therefore we commend; charity this Epistle commends. The Lord, after His resurrection, what question put He to Peter, but, «Do you love me?» John 21:15-17 * …

*«For this is the message:» *mark how he confirms it: «For this is the message which we heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.» He has made it manifest to us that it is of this he speaks; whoso acts against this commandment, is in that accursed sin, into which those fall who are not born of God. …

They that have charity are born of God: they that have it not, are not born of God. A mighty token, a mighty distinction! Have what you will; if this alone you have not, it profits you nothing: other things if you have not, have this, and you have fulfilled the law.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Augustine didn’t see the obvious. Notice that St. John accuses no one person of sin – he only does it in the plural. We.

The bump you are hitting is that “we” can mean every one of us – or it can mean some of us. It is in fact possible to be personally sinless, but to live in a community that is sinful.

The “I confess” that we speak in church speaks of past sins – but it troubled me for a while why one would need to say that if they had just been to confession minutes before – although I don’t see this problem in St. John’s writings.

There is a slight question of whether or not one is in venial sin at every moment if they do not praise God, or some such notion – but that is more of an issue of the frailty of our bodies than of the commission or omission of sin.

What St. John appears to be guarding against in his writings is the notion that “Catholics” or “Christians” are sinless just because they belong to that group.
.
Jews seemed to have that problem … and instead of Israel being a light to the other nations – we have the prophets speaking words like “Because of you my name is spoken ill of all day.”. Discrimination based not on the false worship issues – but just on not being an Israelite. This is what Paul refers to in his writings as well – regarding justification – they are all sinners: Gentiles and Jews.
As a Group, Catholics cannot claim to be sinless either.

 

[pneuma07]

Augustine didn’t see the obvious. Notice that St. John accuses no one person of sin – he only does it in the plural. We.

The bump you are hitting is that “we” can mean every one of us – or it can mean some of us. It is in fact possible to be personally sinless, but to live in a community that is sinful.

The “I confess” that we speak in church speaks of past sins – but it troubled me for a while why one would need to say that if they had just been to confession minutes before – although I don’t see this problem in St. John’s writings.

There is a slight question of whether or not one is in venial sin at every moment if they do not praise God, or some such notion – but that is more of an issue of the frailty of our bodies than of the commission or omission of sin.

What St. John appears to be guarding against in his writings is the notion that “Catholics” or “Christians” are sinless just because they belong to that group.
.
Jews seemed to have that problem … and instead of Israel being a light to the other nations – we have the prophets speaking words like “Because of you my name is spoken ill of all day.”. Discrimination based not on the false worship issues – but just on not being an Israelite. This is what Paul refers to in his writings as well – regarding justification – they are all sinners: Gentiles and Jews.
As a Group, Catholics cannot claim to be sinless either.

Hi Huiou Theou ( we have greek nicknames )
Interesting insight about the “we” and the collective dimension it can entail.

Augustine’s explanation remains great IMHO. He teaches that it is not that who loves is without sins. But love, agape, is the “mighty distinction”.

Bless you.