1 Tim 4:10

[Orion]

1 Timothy 4:10
For this we toil and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the savior of all, especially of those who believe.

Savior of all…especially those who believe.

Any way I slice this verse… I always come to the same conclusion…everyone will eventually get to heaven.

What am I missing?

I know there are other verses that talk about hell and eternity etc…but those verses cannot contradict this verse. And this verse is as simple as straightforward as can be.

I’m also assuming “all” means “all”. Not all who accept…it doesn’t say “only” those who believe.

Opinions?

 

[MistyF]

I’m really new to this, and so this is just a guess on my part, really. But, I think the phrase “savior to all” implies that anyone can be saved by him. And when it says “especially those who believe”, it seems to be saying that those who believe will be more likely to be saved - though it’s still possible they won’t. Some people believe and will turn away, regardless - on purpose. Remember the verse that says "Not everyone saying to me ‘Lord, lord’ will get into heaven? But, also it might be implying that for those people who don’t believe because they’ve never had the opportunity to - they will still be given a chance.

But regardless of my theories there - even if people don’t take advantage of salvation, it is still offered to them.

 

[Orion]

Fair enough Misty… I don’t necessarily agree but I can see how the implication can be made.

One other note: The verse states God is the savior to all…

There are no qualifications in this verse. God is the savior to all…especially the believers.

There are other verses that could support this view as well…

-Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world

-Romans 5:18-20

-in Adam all die…in Christ all live

-every knee shall bow … forgive them, they know not what they do…

etc…

 

[yochumjy]

1 Timothy 4:10
For this we toil and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the savior of all, especially of those who believe.

Savior of all…especially those who believe.
…
What am I missing?

I know there are other verses that talk about hell and eternity etc…but those verses cannot contradict this verse. And this verse is as simple as straightforward as can be.

I’m also assuming “all” means “all”. Not all who accept…it doesn’t say “only” those who believe.

Opinions?

But as you say 1 Tim 4:10 can not contradict verses that talk about hell and eternity. So if that is true, they both must be true at the same time. So if both verses are true, how do you reconcile them together? Think about that first and then test your assumption against it. Does your assumption fit all verses, both Tim and others. If your assumption doesn’t fit, maybe it is wrong. MistF, your guess looks pretty good, since it fits all verses he is talking about.

Thoughts Orion?

John

 

[Orion]

yochumjy:

But as you say 1 Tim 4:10 can not contradict verses that talk about hell and eternity. So if that is true, they both must be true at the same time. So if both verses are true, how do you reconcile them together? Think about that first and then test your assumption against it. Does your assumption fit all verses, both Tim and others. If your assumption doesn’t fit, maybe it is wrong. MistF, your guess looks pretty good, since it fits all verses he is talking about.

Thoughts Orion?

John

Not sure if I follow… my assumption that scripture cannot be contradictory might be wrong? Or the meaning of this pretty straightforward verse might be wrong?

 

[yochumjy]

Orion:

Not sure if I follow… my assumption that scripture cannot be contradictory might be wrong? Or the meaning of this pretty straightforward verse might be wrong?

Huh? If scripture contradicts itself, then you have no knowledge of which is true. You are only left with assumptions that ANYTHING is true. If scripture is wrong, it is not scripture. If God, who is the God of Truth has actually guided the writers of the Bible then there can only be Truth. Therefore, you accept the Bible, or you don’t. This is actually what I see as the biggest stumbling block of Protestantism. They don’t generally look at everything in the Bible, they just pick at what they believe supports their opinion. It is an all or nothing concept. If you don’t understand something, you must dig deeper.

John

 

[Orion]

yochumjy:

Huh? If scripture contradicts itself, then you have no knowledge of which is true. You are only left with assumptions that ANYTHING is true. If scripture is wrong, it is not scripture. If God, who is the God of Truth has actually guided the writers of the Bible then there can only be Truth. Therefore, you accept the Bible, or you don’t. This is actually what I see as the biggest stumbling block of Protestantism. They don’t generally look at everything in the Bible, they just pick at what they believe supports their opinion. It is an all or nothing concept. If you don’t understand something, you must dig deeper.

John

Hmm…

Okay… digging is what I’m doing. I guess I’ll continue searching until it makes sense to me…

 

[MistyF]

Orion:

Fair enough Misty… I don’t necessarily agree but I can see how the implication can be made.

One other note: The verse states God is the savior to all…

There are no qualifications in this verse. God is the savior to all…especially the believers.

Yes, He is there for anyone who wants Him. But, He gives us free will, and does not force our hands.

There are other verses that could support this view as well…

-Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world

-Romans 5:18-20

Just to point out that sometimes you have to consider what it’s really saying. If that is taken 100% literally, that means the earth we live on has sins taken away. But, to me, this again says that by accepting Jesus our sins are taken away.

-in Adam all die…in Christ all live

-every knee shall bow … forgive them, they know not what they do…

etc…

Well, the “forgive them, for they know not what they do” indicates that this applies to those who have not had opportunity to know God. And the part that says “in Adam all die…in Christ all live” Well, those that will live, live in Christ. Those that die (go to Hell) will do so because of Adam. But this again, is saying that we have the opportunity to live in Christ.